Render track = what bitrate?

[Mr. Tingle]

For now, calm down

Seems like something to be a little bit concerned about.

This caught me out and I ended up doing 1/3 of an album (3 months work) at 16-bit! That is quite anoying.

After that I used a workaround, but still, new comers are going to get caught out.

A short cut button that looses quality is just plain pants.

[chico.co.uk]

Just for the record, the expression 'bit rate' is an oxymoron and leads to confusion. 'Bits' have nothing to do with 'rate' but with 'depth'. It's 'bit depth' (8, 16, 24, and so on) and 'sample rate' (44,1, 48, and so on).

Bit rate isn't an oxymoron, it's a networking term. Effectively it's how many bits get passed in a second (although it's not always measured in seconds). Most people use it to describe how fast their internet connection is. Bit depth is the term that should be used for audio apps, as you say

[ezeeboogie]

For now, calm down

Seems like something to be a little bit concerned about.

This caught me out and I ended up doing 1/3 of an album (3 months work) at 16-bit! That is quite anoying.

After that I used a workaround, but still, new comers are going to get caught out.

A short cut button that looses quality is just plain pants.

I understand how much this pissed you off. I just felt that you were all working yourselves up a bit without waiting to see if Jules can or can't do something about the problem. I agree with the comments here about being able to choose the sample rate and bit depth when rendering but the problem is not terminal, it can be worked around very easily.

This is a major issue to you, I am well aware, and it IS something to be concerned about but my point was; bring it up with Jules and see what he says. He is the only person who can give you the answers you require and no matter how much people get annoyed at the lack of this feature in the forum, contacting Jules is still the best option if you want Jules' opinion/reasons/answers.

[Mr. Tingle]

contacting Jules is still the best option if you want Jules' opinion/reasons/answers.

Jules setup this forum for exactly this purpose. Check out who the moderator is for the Tracktion forum.

I'm not anoyed now, just empathising with people who are, and reaserting my opinion that it is an important issue.

[Aleatoric]

Getting this fixed so there is an option to make both "Render" and "Freeze" 24 or 32 bit is a MUST. Like I said before it is the one thing that really pisses me off about Tracktion because I used Render on soooooo many projects and dont have the orginal non rendered version and now have 16 bit audio in tons of my songs. I am big into sound quality and can clearly hear the difference and should have recognized this sooner. This needs to be fixed ASAP. There is no need to have a silly workaround for an option that should be implemented in the first place. The single click "render" and "Freeze" is really what I find so cool about Tracktion as it lets me do alot more on my powerbook. However losing sound quality as a result of this just stinks.

I suggest all others concerned about this to kindly email Jules and let him know. That should show him that it is a priority. thanks.

[Aleatoric]

Mang, WOuld love a "Yes guys this will be addressed in an upcoming update later this week or so" from Jules. Jules you there? What is the plan? There are two threads on this issue. Hope it will be fixed ASAP.

[Sleepwalker]

"bump"

[Aleatoric]

jules replied back to my email regarding this topic with some sarcasim. He told me that he would "look into it" but than also said if I could not tell before that track rendering was 16 bit and not 24 bit than it cant be "that big a deal". However I could tell that all my Tracktion songs (All my songs have rendered audio at 16bit because of this) sound quality was not as good as the the quality with other apps, ie Reason and Logic. I assumed it was something regarding Tracktion engine being written poorly or something (I made a thread regarding this weeks ago) but after I saw this thread I relized it was do to all the 16 bit audio. Long story short Jules kinda acted like I was some wierd wining kid and he would simply "look into it" I even after I linked him to the two threads regarding this and all the other mac users who agree this needs to be fixed asap. I dont know why Jules talked down to me when I am simply reporting a bug I and others need/want fixed. Jules was always nice and polite to me before in emails. I even said at the end something along the lines of thanks again for the best most praticle sequencer in the universe. Whatever. I hope this gets fixed, I NEED THIS FIXED. I work in 24bit and that is all there is to it. And yes I know about the half ass work around....it just silly to have a one click render that lowers the quality of your track. Just plain stupid. Especially for those who use Tracktion for months not knowing they are reducing the quality of there songs. thanks.

[tracktion monkey]

Emailed jules& want to add another voice of support Surely this is essential & about the only thing I could miss from Cubase5 Yep the only thing

[Aleatoric]

Thanks Tracktion Monkey! I know it is the only thing that is really bugging me about the mac version of Tracktion. I have expressed this enough in this thread and the other thread "The number one thing I want fixed in Tracktion" so I wont go into it again. However Jules lack on concern and putting me down for reporting the bug was unneccesary and did not make me feel good about this being a concern of his to get fixed.

I encorage all mac Tracktioneers who want to be able to one click freeze and render tracks at 24 bit to politely email Jules! This is really all we can do to get this fixed in an upcoming update. So everyone PLEASE drop Jules an email saying you want 24 bit freeze and render!

[jamesridge]

My initial reaction to this thread was "why doesn't it render in the projects sample rate/bit depth?". After poking around (still a new Tracktion user) I realized there is no project level sample rate/bit depth! This is brilliant!! It allows for a mix of tracks with different recording quality and seemless import/export. Is this right? Can it be? I've spent hours converting sample rates in Nuendo. Are those days over???

Jay

P.S. It would be useful to be able to specify the render quality.

[valley]

I realized there is no project level sample rate/bit depth! This is brilliant!! It allows for a mix of tracks with different recording quality and seemless import/export. Is this right? Can it be?

Tracktion just locks itself to your audio card settings.

Internally everything is done at 32bit, so all imported samples are presumably upsampled to 32bit natively.

Basially, you just set your soundcard properties to your preference, and Tracktion just takes care of the rest.

[valley]

but than also said if I could not tell before that track rendering was 16 bit and not 24 bit than it cant be "that big a deal".

That's not correct, and I'm sure he knows it. I typically can't hear the difference between 16bit and 24bit unless I'm doing a straight side be side and concentrating *really* hard. Rounding errors are accumulative though, and so any further work done on that track will come with a marked reduction in quality. Even I can start picking out differences when a sample has been upsampled and downsampled one too many times.

I can also hear it when there are a number of tracks being mixed together.

Track render should be a raw dump of Tracktion's internal 32bit float data type. It doesn't even need to be a wav of aiff file, that's what export is for. What I would expect from render is that it creates a perfect snapshot of the audio as it exists inside Tracktion.

[jens]

I typically can't hear the difference between 16bit and 24bit unless I'm doing a straight side be side and concentrating *really* hard. Rounding errors are accumulative though, and so any further work done on that track will come with a marked reduction in quality.

exactly what I thought

Track render should be a raw dump of Tracktion's internal 32bit float data type. It doesn't even need to be a wav of aiff file, that's what export is for. What I would expect from render is that it creates a perfect snapshot of the audio as it exists inside Tracktion.

yes!

But this already has been brought up months ago, so Jules knows that we know he knows and it can't be that hard to implement