DP 11 is out

[machinesworking]

What's the status of their virtual instruments? UVI hasn't worked on them in about 10 years. Is MOTU going to just let them die?

That's a good question. UVI jumped ship to buddying up to Pro Tools, (Falcon is included in the subscription etc.), but MOTU and UVI still partner on some things, there's a decent enough collection of UVI instruments included in DP that work in the UVI player and Falcon. MOTU reps recommend Falcon and it's still possible to get a cross grade price from MachFive 3 if you ask.
I would imagine they're stuck in limbo licensing wise, but at least according to MOTUs own site Big Sur and Apple Silicon support is being investigated. From their blurb on it:

MOTU virtual instruments (MachFive, etc.)

MachFive, Ethno Instrument, BPM, Electric Keys and Symphonic Instrument (any version) are not yet compatible with macOS Big Sur. Please continue to check this web page for late-breaking information regarding versions of these MOTU apps that will be compatible with macOS Big Sur.

[machinesworking]

Audio capture is pretty sweet!

And good videos on chunks & v-racks? You mention them often, but I've no idea what they are

I'll post some links, but a brief explanation. DP can more or less host multiple songs, (or Sequences in MOTU's terms) in the same open project, it can host a rack of virtual instruments that are available to all Sequences in a Project called a V-Rack. V-Racks can include instruments, Aux's and master faders. <-- V-Racks and Sequence Chunks are "Chunks" existing separate from the open Sequence (Chunk).

So to make it clearer- Sequence Chunks and V-racks live in the Chunks Window but they're very different obviously.

Sequence Chunks share hardly anything, so you can have different FX and Instruments in each one, just like different Bitwig sets, but switching Chunks in the Chunks window instantly switches to the new Sequence Chunk, especially if you loaded virtual instruments and FX in Aux tracks into a V-Rack which exists outside of Sequence Chunks. The caveat here is V-racks don't have tracks, so instruments loaded into V-Racks don't do track automation only MIDI automation. So if you're wanting or needing to do a lot of track automation it's best to load that instrument into a Swequence Chunk instead of a V-Rack. Even then it's strip useful though, especially for huge sample libraries that take forever to load between Chunks.

So Sequence Chunks can be entire songs, parts of songs, remixes, an entire set of all of your songs. There's even controls in the Chunks window to play the next Chunk with any amount of time between chunks determined by you, or load it until you hit the spacebar.

It's one of those features that no other DAW has copied with anything like the versatility of Chunks. All the other DAWs I own do pretty mediocre things to string together a live set of all of your songs compared. Plus it's just much better than archiving the MIDI version, the audio version, the mix down etc. in Bitwig, Live, Logic etc. etc. It's all in the same Project in DP, just in the MIDI Chunk, Audio Chunk, Mixdown Chunk etc.

Here's an old but still fairly relevant explanation of Chunks from MOTU:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAPbm2kQ3Xo&t=4s

[antic604]

I'll post some links, but a brief explanation...

Thank you!!!

[antic604]

In the end - NOPE. To me it just LOOKS like one of those "whats wrong with..." DAWs, that are perfectly fine and perhaps even unique in terms of features like Mixcraft or ACiD, but are stuck in the 90s design language... I just can'g get past the janky GUI.

Phewww...

[summer2000]

Is it possible to preview loops in the samples browser in sync with a sequence or song while it's playing?

[Ploki]

What's the draw to DP? I've seen it around but it doesn't have much of a community and doesn't seem to have any interesting or unique features yet it's priced similarly to the big names.

DP is popular in certain professional circles. I know a few film composers who stuck with it throughout the years because if its surround sound capabilities.

not to mention chunks. Chunks are a f**king god-send

[auricle]

Digital Performer is certainly old school and was one of the early sequencers on the Mac way back when. It quickly developed it's own way of presenting and editing MIDI data which many people love - but for others who are used to the Cubase/Logic/Cakewalk/Studo One/etc way of doing things, it takes a while to get used to!

[machinesworking]

In the end - NOPE. To me it just LOOKS like one of those "whats wrong with..." DAWs, that are perfectly fine and perhaps even unique in terms of features like Mixcraft or ACiD, but are stuck in the 90s design language... I just can'g get past the janky GUI.

Phewww...

The GUI in the video is from 2011 or so... None more Black, Carbon Fiber Red, and the default are the ones I use. I'm not interested in selling you on DP per say, but you're a big Reason fan. That's IMO an even more dated GUI.

Plus, DP has more than one skin. It's not a simple DAW though, it's more like Logic or Reaper in that sense, where it's not dumbed down at all, even the MPE implementation is pretty extensive it seems. I've worked since 2000 using a "simple" DAW and a "dinosaur" DAW: at first DP with Reason rewired in, then later Logic and Live, then DP and Live, then DP and Bitwig. The reason is straightforward, Live and Bitwig are a lot of fun, but they miss massive parts of the whole thing to focus flatly on electronic music, specifically mouse driven rather than played in songwriting. They have the basics for recording but the focus is on things like the parameter randomizing by chance type stuff that Bitwigs latest brought, even the comping is focused on 'creative' comping. Then to top it off there's no: Score editing, video hosting features, articulation or expression mapping for orchestral instruments, SysEx support, Event list, pitch correction, extensive audio editing etc. etc. It's geared flatly towards people who mostly do not play in the parts you composed and fine tuning them, rather it's geared towards experimenting until you come up with something like a song, same with Live.

So yeah, it's not Live or Bitwig, it's Reaper without the awful scripting for Clips and articulation mapping, and a better UX; or it's Logic without the candyland looping and dumbing down.

[machinesworking]

Is it possible to preview loops in the samples browser in sync with a sequence or song while it's playing?

IMO this is coming, the Content Browser is almost there, it's got to be obvious to MOTU where the shortcoming are now. Preview is just, plain vanilla, and not very thought out at this point. There is always an Achilles heal to every DAW, IMO that and Clips not being able to access the Drum Editor are where DP is behind. The workaround is to use UVI player or Falcon etc. to preview loops in time with the music etc.

[auricle]

I'll say one thing about DP's GUI. Although it's difficult on the eyes with a high res monitor (haven't tried DP 11), it's one window GUI paradigm that so many DAWs now have is vastly superior. It's so easy to split or combine the work area to show different information. Many DAWs should take lessons from MOTU on how to build a functional, fluid interface.

[antic604]

The GUI in the video is from 2011 or so... None more Black, Carbon Fiber Red, and the default are the ones I use. I'm not interested in selling you on DP per say, but you're a big Reason fan. That's IMO an even more dated GUI.

I tried the demo yesterday - that's what I'm referring to. And no skin will change the fact that the GUI simply feels "janky" to me. Obviously GUI preference is very subjective & personal, so I indeed prefer Reason's much better

And I can fully embrace the fact that I'm too stupid for DP (or Reaper, for that matter) - no problem here

[Ploki]

I tried the demo yesterday - that's what I'm referring to. And no skin will change the fact that the GUI simply feels "janky" to me. Obviously GUI preference is very subjective & personal, so I indeed prefer Reason's much better

And I can fully embrace the fact that I'm too stupid for DP (or Reaper, for that matter) - no problem here

i tried it today and i totally agree re: GUI.
I feel the same as reaper. It's clunked together, spacing between elements is weird, consistency is poor.
Logic, Studio One, Cubase, Ableton and even Pro Tools all feel much more "refined". (can't say about reason because i used it very little)

I still prefer Logic by far tho, with its many quirks, GUI just doesn't get in the way.

[machinesworking]

I tried the demo yesterday - that's what I'm referring to. And no skin will change the fact that the GUI simply feels "janky" to me. Obviously GUI preference is very subjective & personal, so I indeed prefer Reason's much better

And I can fully embrace the fact that I'm too stupid for DP (or Reaper, for that matter) - no problem here

i tried it today and i totally agree re: GUI.
I feel the same as reaper. It's clunked together, spacing between elements is weird, consistency is poor.
Logic, Studio One, Cubase, Ableton and even Pro Tools all feel much more "refined". (can't say about reason because i used it very little)

I still prefer Logic by far tho, with its many quirks, GUI just doesn't get in the way.

I used Logic for years, great program, but it's far more limiting now compared to DP. Right away, MPE support in Logic is by far the worst, it literally eats up all 16 channels because Logic doesn't differentiate by port on MIDI input, only by channel. So you can't assign a specific controller to a specific port. If this didn't bother me so much I would agree that Logic is great, but it really does bother me, I like the illusion of hardware I get using Bitwig or DP11 with multiple controllers assigned to various virtual instruments, it's even possible to use both the Seaboard block and Linnstrument here at the same time. Not in Logic.

Plus, and this is huge, Logic is what you're used to, the inconsistencies in Logic that you take for granted are flatly there, you're just used to them. Attempting to figure out multi instruments in Logic after not using it since v7 was... daunting. The fact they all look like regular instruments is, stupid, but if you're used to it, it's no big deal, there are even plusses to the set up. IMO the fact that Logic has multi instrument input aux tracks that look like instruments themselves is a GUI fail.

Same with anything involving Click and Ports, the Environment etc. etc.

The routing in DP is far far more consistent and straightforward, Logic simply doesn't follow any real world studio paradigms, or even other DAWs paradigms on routing, but if you're used to it, then it doesn't bother you. There's a lot of "hey we'll hide that from you, just find a youtube video to explain how to do this simple thing" in Logic

I think these count as UX and GUI fails, so I'm willing to forgive some spacing issues with an eminently more configurable GUI.

[Serhii Kot]

I have downloaded the demo. As usual, I am a bit confused. I know quite well many DAWs and have no issues creating music right away. But not in DP. I just remember the last time when I tried and failed. In my paradigm, if I can't figure it out without any tutorials, it is probably not for me.

I am sure, that I need just understand the logic of DP and it will be clearer than (just like FL). But tutorials on youtube aren't that many.

Maybe someone has a link to some DP workflow explanation? To regular music producer mind.

[Ploki]

@machinesworking
I agree with midi ports and such, but i dont think that has anything to do with GUI, spacing and general feel of the UI.
it's a functionality fail, one i hope they fix asap, but it wont affect how logic looks and feels in the slightest.

re hidden functions: i can't recall crucial functions any that aren't accessible by key commands and shortcuts when you know where and how it works. I find that better than having every function up and front despite never, ever, using it. But even then, Cubase imo handles "here you go, everything you could possibly have in too small of a space" better than DP.

Functionality wise it's amazing, the way it handles MPE and chunks alone is ages in front of every other DAW.