"Show All Takes"/ "+" Sign Disappeared?

[Watchful]

Yes, chunks!

If you're doing a live session, of course, that's not going to work...but then, you're probably not comping those anyway.

For studio work, you might... as a drummer... record a verse or two a few times. Then do the chorus. Then the bridge. Do your intro, your middle, etc., and finally do a few fills that you can sprinkle in. When done, assemble your best bits and put them into the correct order.

It sounds weird to a lot of experienced people coming into the DAW world, but non-linear recording is crazy efficient. You can trap errors or work on improvements without needing to record the entire track or punch in for tiny sections. For example, record you just drumming the verse section maybe 4 or 5 times. Comp that to perfection. You can copy that section everywhere you want that particular variation.

Later, you find a groove you like better for the verse. Instead of re-recording the entire track, you just re-record and replace the one verse...takes minutes.

You're likely way ahead of me on this, but I want to belabor the point as we have a lot of new users joining in here, and comping is an incredibly powerful time-saving tool lots of people don't seem to even know about. I will comp any live recordings: vocals, guitars, backing tracks, keyboard solos, live drums, etc. I use short chunks of the song in question to minimize having to re-record longer sections otherwise perfect.

[tmaworks]

Yes, chunks!

If you're doing a live session, of course, that's not going to work...but then, you're probably not comping those anyway.

For studio work, you might... as a drummer... record a verse or two a few times. Then do the chorus. Then the bridge. Do your intro, your middle, etc., and finally do a few fills that you can sprinkle in. When done, assemble your best bits and put them into the correct order.

It sounds weird to a lot of experienced people coming into the DAW world, but non-linear recording is crazy efficient. You can trap errors or work on improvements without needing to record the entire track or punch in for tiny sections. For example, record you just drumming the verse section maybe 4 or 5 times. Comp that to perfection. You can copy that section everywhere you want that particular variation.

Later, you find a groove you like better for the verse. Instead of re-recording the entire track, you just re-record and replace the one verse...takes minutes.

You're likely way ahead of me on this, but I want to belabor the point as we have a lot of new users joining in here, and comping is an incredibly powerful time-saving tool lots of people don't seem to even know about. I will comp any live recordings: vocals, guitars, backing tracks, keyboard solos, live drums, etc. I use short chunks of the song in question to minimize having to re-record longer sections otherwise perfect.

I'm gonna really have to think about this --As I'm sure you know already: My idea is to just do three straight takes all the way through and then comp what's necessary -Taking the fills from one take that I like more, or whatever. Although it's more work, I think this approach might be easier only because I'm tracking and playing myself at the same time -So, I don't really know what I've got until I play it back...

How are you advocating that I do this method, though -With loop mode??

[Watchful]

Definitely, so. As you said, if you're doing live work, this is NOT the way to go, obviously.

But if you're laying down tracks for someone else, consider slicing the song up into chunks:

1. Verse, 4-5 times (looped)
2. Alternate verse, 4-5 times (looped)
3. Chorus, 4-5 times (looped)
4. Bridge, 4-5 times (looped)
5. Middle, 4-5 times (looped)
6. Intro, 4-5 times (looped)
etc.

That way you're only comping a few seconds of audio with each chunk, rather than a ton of tracks for 4-5 minutes each track.

When done, you drag the clips into the correct order in the song: intro, verse, chorus, bridge, alternate verse...etc...copying the final clips as needed until the whole song is complete.

And again, if you decide later to redo the bridge, for example, you only need to re-loop the bridge

I'm aware of some folks who build an entire song this way and THEN lay down a full track, using the final/full comped track as a guide, especially for vocals and guitar. Don't see that this approach would work with drums, though, but I mention it in case I'm wrong!

It's a non-linear way of working. I started out very old school, where you started with the intro...all the way to the end of the song. If anybody messed up, you started over...all the way at the beginning of the song. No need to do that anymore: you can just slice up the song to focus on one part of it, and then drag the pieces into the right order when it's perfect.

[dysjoint]

Once you have audio, Waveform is so good for editing. I'm talking more from an EDM/drum and bass perspective. Chopping breaks, creating groove etc. You can literally chop out one dud snare and replace that one hit, etc etc.
Sure, that old school, one take, tape influenced workflow may be a preference for personal satisfaction or whatever, each to their own, but not necessary. Within reason of course. Some modern tracks you can literally hear the disconnect of digital workflow in the song arrangement, ideas pasted together. Getting off topic, but yeah, I also think there's easier ways to get the 'recorded product" done than a strict' 'comping live takes' approach.

[tmaworks]

Definitely, so. As you said, if you're doing live work, this is NOT the way to go, obviously.

But if you're laying down tracks for someone else, consider slicing the song up into chunks:

1. Verse, 4-5 times (looped)
2. Alternate verse, 4-5 times (looped)
3. Chorus, 4-5 times (looped)
4. Bridge, 4-5 times (looped)
5. Middle, 4-5 times (looped)
6. Intro, 4-5 times (looped)
etc.

That way you're only comping a few seconds of audio with each chunk, rather than a ton of tracks for 4-5 minutes each track.

When done, you drag the clips into the correct order in the song: intro, verse, chorus, bridge, alternate verse...etc...copying the final clips as needed until the whole song is complete.

And again, if you decide later to redo the bridge, for example, you only need to re-loop the bridge

I'm aware of some folks who build an entire song this way and THEN lay down a full track, using the final/full comped track as a guide, especially for vocals and guitar. Don't see that this approach would work with drums, though, but I mention it in case I'm wrong!

It's a non-linear way of working. I started out very old school, where you started with the intro...all the way to the end of the song. If anybody messed up, you started over...all the way at the beginning of the song. No need to do that anymore: you can just slice up the song to focus on one part of it, and then drag the pieces into the right order when it's perfect.

Damn. I NEVER even ever would've thought of working like this... Hmm...

Kinda brilliant.

Gonna have to really consider this...

Thanks, Watchful.

[tmaworks]

Once you have audio, Waveform is so good for editing. I'm talking more from an EDM/drum and bass perspective. Chopping breaks, creating groove etc. You can literally chop out one dud snare and replace that one hit, etc etc.
Sure, that old school, one take, tape influenced workflow may be a preference for personal satisfaction or whatever, each to their own, but not necessary. Within reason of course. Some modern tracks you can literally hear the disconnect of digital workflow in the song arrangement, ideas pasted together. Getting off topic, but yeah, I also think there's easier ways to get the 'recorded product" done than a strict' 'comping live takes' approach.

Waveform is KING for editing, for sure. Sooo much easier than Reaper for me. Also, King, I would say, is Audacity. FANTASTICLY malleable click track feature that I just love...

Do you use Reaper, at all?

[dysjoint]

No, never used anything else. I'm just do it got fun, been using Tracktion since 2008. So I don't know any different to be fair. Also never felt the need to use anything else though.....

[dysjoint]

Lol, my English speak well in that reply.

[Watchful]

Sure, that old school, one take, tape influenced workflow may be a preference for personal satisfaction or whatever, each to their own, but not necessary. Within reason of course. Some modern tracks you can literally hear the disconnect of digital workflow in the song arrangement, ideas pasted together.

So true! Since you mentioned it, I should explain why I recommended doing alternate verse takes, and also creating some additional fills and rolls to sprinkle in there. Dysjoint is right: the listeners today aren't dumb, and they pick up on cuts and pastes pretty readily. Yet, it doesn't take much variation to erase that perception.

Another warning about my method: if you're using room mics or overhead mics, you pick up a lot of natural slapback delay and reverberation that sounds real because it is. If you start cutting up clips and pasting them around, you can easily chop off those tails and the drums will sound very fake.

Which would be a shame, because in your case, they're 100% real! As Dysjoint suggests, use this approach carefully!

Also, a great reason to record your drums as dry as possible. Group your takes into a submix, pop in some of Waveform's built-in effects or some others you have and you can create a drum rig from hell: phase or flange some tom rolls, add a ton of reverb to the kick, some snap to the snares, and all of this and more. It's easier to create a space in Waveform than it is to record a space live and decide later you don't like the sound of it! You're in charge, now--not the room you recorded in.

[tmaworks]

Sure, that old school, one take, tape influenced workflow may be a preference for personal satisfaction or whatever, each to their own, but not necessary. Within reason of course. Some modern tracks you can literally hear the disconnect of digital workflow in the song arrangement, ideas pasted together.

Also, a great reason to record your drums as dry as possible. Group your takes into a submix, pop in some of Waveform's built-in effects or some others you have and you can create a drum rig from hell: phase or flange some tom rolls, add a ton of reverb to the kick, some snap to the snares, and all of this and more. It's easier to create a space in Waveform than it is to record a space live and decide later you don't like the sound of it! You're in charge, now--not the room you recorded in.

HOw would you recommend making my room deader? I think I've got a pretty descent sound now. But, I have thought of what you're mentioning -Creating the reverb etc through plugins... Even downloaded this "room" emulation thing. Was free!