[ANN] Repro-1

[KingTuck]

Too cheap isn't good, and neither is too expensive.

There won't be anything esoteric about it. It's very likely going to be a Pro-One "as is", and maybe a small assortment of different calibrations and parts with varied tolerances, e.g. ADSR chips with "overshooting Sustain bug", alternative filter chips with squelchier-than-normal resonance, VCO chips with off-symmetric triangle, the kind of stuff one would expect from different Pro-Ones sitting next to each other.

However, we have also developed a rather ambitious concept of add-ons, which we won't talk about until we have tried and tested them. This is related to the idea of developing a product family and making use of i/o connectivity for CV and audio routings.

Fair enough. Although what you're saying about the different calibrations and parts is definitely esoteric. It's a nice feature, but it's a specialized interest.

Curious to hear about the add ons.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

I'd love to see RePro-1 as the first in a series of specialized 1:1 reproductions of classic synths, but I hope it's just the first of many (as opposed to Urs waiting until he's got enough synths for a bundle and releasing them all at once). For instance, I'd love to see RePro-1 released in the next two months or so at a low-ish price ($49-99USD) with more models to follow like RePro-DG. Eventually, these various specialized mono synths could make up a bundle (maybe even providing owners of one or more discounted pricing on subsequent releases for being early adopters).

I almost always prefer these 1:1 type recreations, with many of the limitations of the hardware, to more expanded upon versions. For instance, if I want a Minimoog lead or bass, Monark is my first choice over Diva. But Diva's great when I want more than a Mini. Would I love a RePro-MM (minimoog)? Heck, yeah I would!

[pdxindy]

Too cheap isn't good, and neither is too expensive.

There won't be anything esoteric about it. It's very likely going to be a Pro-One "as is", and maybe a small assortment of different calibrations and parts with varied tolerances, e.g. ADSR chips with "overshooting Sustain bug", alternative filter chips with squelchier-than-normal resonance, VCO chips with off-symmetric triangle, the kind of stuff one would expect from different Pro-Ones sitting next to each other.

However, we have also developed a rather ambitious concept of add-ons, which we won't talk about until we have tried and tested them. This is related to the idea of developing a product family and making use of i/o connectivity for CV and audio routings.

Fair enough. Although what you're saying about the different calibrations and parts is definitely esoteric. It's a nice feature, but it's a specialized interest.

Curious to hear about the add ons.

Depends on how you are defining esoteric... you seem to mean, something subtle that most people may not care about. Whereas it sounded to me like Urs meant esoteric as in nothing outside the scope of real Pro One behaviors (including variations between them)

[david.beholder]

And I hope that RePro-1 wouldn't stop development of Diva completely and also RP filters would be introduced to it as free or payed upgrade.

[urosh]

Polivoks filter is 12 dB LP/BP and the most f**ked up filter ever put in hardware. I'd be happy to model it, but I currently dont know how.

What's the problem, too computationally expensive or not possible to solve with current approach you guys use in Diva/RePro?

[KingTuck]

Depends on how you are defining esoteric... you seem to mean, something subtle that most people may not care about. Whereas it sounded to me like Urs meant esoteric as in nothing outside the scope of real Pro One behaviors (including variations between them)

Don't mean to be rude but you don't know what the word esoteric means. In this context, saying these features are esoteric means they are something only a minority of people would know much about, or care much about. It's a feature set with a small, pocketed niche audience. Ie: Rarely do non-devs (aka consumers) complain about VA synths not including some of the more minute differences between the various revisions of the hardware synth being modeled. The implementation of these smaller things/differences is fairly time consuming, and the more dev time put in the more the product is probable to cost to recoup dev expenses. RePro will be in an odd place in the u-he product line if it runs a premium price (which could probably be justified by these kinds of additions, cool additions, but nonetheless small in audience), because not everybody is going to see the appeal of a premium priced monophonic VA synth in 2016.

FYI This is just my thoughts on it, I'm excited to see where RePro goes. Odds are I'll be buying a license for it.

[KingTuck]

Polivoks filter is 12 dB LP/BP and the most f**ked up filter ever put in hardware. I'd be happy to model it, but I currently dont know how.

What's the problem, too computationally expensive or not possible to solve with current approach you guys use in Diva/RePro?

Curious to know this too. What's so crazy about it? Anyone know if it's ever been modeled in software before?

[urosh]

Rarely do non-devs (aka consumers) complain about VA synths not including some of the more minute differences between the various revisions of the hardware synth being modeled.

Except in this case differences are not minute/minor (I guess that's why Urs asked for recordings of various Pro Ones some time ago), and it's about component variations, not differences in revisions. For most of synths different units sound quite alike, but for few there can be considerable difference between units for certain parameter ranges, and Pro One is one such synth. And user doesn't need to know underlying theory, he/she can just tweak (virtual) trimpots until it sounds good.

[pdxindy]

Depends on how you are defining esoteric... you seem to mean, something subtle that most people may not care about. Whereas it sounded to me like Urs meant esoteric as in nothing outside the scope of real Pro One behaviors (including variations between them)

Don't mean to be rude but you don't know what the word esoteric means.

Heh... I couldn't begin to count the number of times I have seen people argue about something because they meant different things with the same words.

Esoteric is situational. For you, the extra features modeling the differences from one Pro One to another are the point where it becomes esoteric. For some people, having an experiment with 5 filter models is also esoteric and for some, the very idea of RePro-1 is already esoteric. Most of the world couldn't care less about it.

[EvilDragon]

Polivoks filter is 12 dB LP/BP and the most f**ked up filter ever put in hardware. I'd be happy to model it, but I currently dont know how.

What's the problem, too computationally expensive or not possible to solve with current approach you guys use in Diva/RePro?

Polivoks filter is extremely unpredictable and has lots of non-linearities in it. It's so "bad" that some people say that there's in fact no such thing as "Polivoks filter", there's just an idea of how it's supposed to work (and it rarely works as intended).


Schwa OLGA plugin has a filter based on such design, AFAIK. It's probably not as minutely modelled as filters in Diva, but it sure screams like a pig being slaughtered!

[urosh]

What's so crazy about it?

Polivoks VCF is plain old state-variable filter, as used in Oberheim SEM. But it doesn't use same old OTA (as in SEM and bunch of other) for variable transconductance element for frequency control, but rather programmable gain op amp (which acts as both variable transconductance element and integrator). I guess nonlinearities intrinsic to that PGA, together with omission of typical feedback limiting for resonance, results in a bit peculiar behavior. It can explode/burst in interesting ways at high resonance.

[david.beholder]

Erica synths video about filter with notes on input gain and res behavior

[urosh]

Polivoks filter is extremely unpredictable and has lots of non-linearities in it. It's so "bad" that some people say that there's in fact no such thing as "Polivoks filter", there's just an idea of how it's supposed to work (and it rarely works as intended).

Yeah, Polivoks filter has quite a bit of reputation, but it is fit for pedestrian duties as well, as Marko shows. I consider it not as bad as Steiner-Parker or MS10, those things are barely filters, but are still remarkable filters.

[aaron aardvark]

Urs/u-he,
I remember at some point you were contemplating "adding" occasional double-note triggering for RePro (not something I would want, to be honest, even though my Pro-One does it sometimes), I came across a March 1994 article from Sound-On-Sound magazine. Here is an excerpt:

"The most notorious fault seems to be the double triggering keyboard. Every Pro 1 I have encountered has eventually exhibited this anomaly as it gets older. It is caused by the keyboard mounting gradually bending with age. Happily, five minutes with a screwdriver and a folded-up piece of cardboard soon fixes it!"

I have not tried this fix, nor do I completely understand what he is saying. I haven't opened up my Pro-One in ages.

[looneytunes]

Hello Urs & co.,

I know that the original Pro-1 did not have a sustain pedal input - but I can't imagine being able to play a vst without being able to sustain input via CC64 (ie. sustain pedal on typical midi controllers). Can there be an option somewhere (or modulation control somewhere) to respect CC64? Currently, it doesn't seem like RePro-1 does this.

Thanks,
Kevin L