KVR Audio

Mac of BIOnighT · Post by **Mac of BIOnighT** » Wed Feb 03, 2016 7:33 pm

Guys, relax, I think Markus knows all the above and more and knows what he's doing, so just breathe deeply and calm down everybody, OK? We're all friends here

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Wed Feb 03, 2016 7:38 pm

Mac of BIOnighT wrote:Guys, relax, I think Markus knows all the above and more and knows what he's doing, so just breathe deeply and calm down everybody, OK? We're all friends here

I wouldn't say it's a big deal either, especially as it only has been mentioned in a FB post. But you know how it is, a new Tone2 synth is coming, and the haters gotta find something to niggle about it.

We already had the copy protection thing, now it's a patented term. If Tone2 don't bring some conrete news soon, god knows what will be next.

Mac of BIOnighT · Post by **Mac of BIOnighT** » Wed Feb 03, 2016 7:47 pm

chk071 wrote:If Tone2 don't bring some concrete news soon, god knows what will be next.

Satanic rituals? ;-P

(actually, that'd be cool

)

Frantz · Post by **Frantz** » Wed Feb 03, 2016 8:12 pm

Ingonator wrote: Independent of this will be used in the future or not you simply did not get that the way how the term "z-plane" was used by Tone2 is not related to the E-Mu filters but just a general way to describe certain complex filters as i alraedy tried to explain (and was also mentioend in the quote from Markus).

I understand that Tone2's filter algorithms are complete different than Emu's. There is no possibility of patent infringement.

However, there could be trademark infringement in the U.S. since it creates confusion in the mind of customers like FMR around the trademarked term "Z-Plane".

Patents are an invention. Trademarks are branding - words or images associated with a product.

This is really a tempest in a teacup. It doesn't help that a lot of people don't understand what a trademark is.

In any case, I am looking forward to trying out this synth. It looks very promising.

synzh · Post by **synzh** » Wed Feb 03, 2016 8:27 pm

z-plane is a math term, I'm sure I used it in college math
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complex_plane

nineofkings · Post by **nineofkings** » Wed Feb 03, 2016 8:51 pm

synzh wrote:z-plane is a math term, I'm sure I used it in college math
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complex_plane

This is defensible. Could disqualify it from being a trademark as it's a common term as opposed to an arbitrary one and therefore not "inherently distinctive"

(Disclaimer: any legal knowledge I have applies to U.S. law)

Frantz · Post by **Frantz** » Thu Feb 04, 2016 12:38 am

nineofkings wrote: This is defensible. Could disqualify it from being a trademark as it's a common term as opposed to an arbitrary one and therefore not "inherently distinctive"

I disagree. E-mu has a live US trademark on "Z-Plane" that is strongly associated with their brand of synths and this could cause confusion in customers' minds.

I think the discussion is academic since Dave Rossum (founder of E-mu) and Markus have better things to do with their time. But if Markus wanted to be safe, he would use a different term in his marketing including his Facebook posts.

Mac of BIOnighT · Post by **Mac of BIOnighT** » Thu Feb 04, 2016 2:02 am

That's not the word, it's the logo. The copyright you posted is on the logo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wordmark not on the word.

Frantz · Post by **Frantz** » Thu Feb 04, 2016 2:06 am

Mac of BIOnighT wrote:That's not the word, it's the logo. The copyright you posted is on the logo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wordmark not on the word.

Did you read the Wikipedia link?

In the United States, the term wordmark may not only refer to the graphical representation, but the text itself may be a type of trademark.

Mac of BIOnighT · Post by **Mac of BIOnighT** » Thu Feb 04, 2016 4:37 am

Yes, I did read it, but "may" doesn't mean "certainly does". I'm no expert, but in this case I believe it refers to the logo, not the term, while it's probably the case with "Coca Cola". If what other people said is correct (z-plane is a mathematical function), you can't copyright it, no more than you could copyright the name "mineral water". Again, I'm no expert, but I do not think Yamaha copyrighted the term FM, as I see it everywhere, and the reason is that FM is a physics thing, not an invented name. Either that, or they couldn't be bothered to sue all the people who used it.
Anyway, if this is really important, maybe somebody could dig up some other document that doesn't lend itself to misleading interpretation and solve the dispute

Mac of BIOnighT · Post by **Mac of BIOnighT** » Thu Feb 04, 2016 4:37 am

Mac of BIOnighT wrote:Yes, I did read it, but "may" doesn't mean "certainly does". I'm no expert, but in this case I believe it refers to the logo, not the term, while that's probably the case with "Coca Cola". If what other people said is correct (z-plane is a mathematical function), you can't copyright it, no more than you could copyright the name "mineral water". Again, I'm no expert, but I do not think Yamaha copyrighted the term FM, as I see it everywhere, and the reason is that FM is a physics thing, not an invented name. Either that, or they couldn't be bothered to sue all the people who used it.
Anyway, if this is really important, maybe somebody could dig up some other document that doesn't lend itself to misleading interpretation and solve the dispute

Mac of BIOnighT · Post by **Mac of BIOnighT** » Thu Feb 04, 2016 4:38 am

Mac of BIOnighT wrote:
Mac of BIOnighT wrote:Yes, I did read it, but "may" doesn't mean "certainly does". I'm no expert, but in this case I believe it refers to the logo, not the term, while that's probably the case with "Coca Cola". If what other people said is correct (z-plane is a mathematical function), you can't copyright it, no more than you could copyright the name "mineral water". Again, I'm no expert, but I do not think Yamaha copyrighted the term FM, as I see it everywhere, and the reason is that FM is a physics thing, not an invented name. Either that, or they couldn't be bothered to sue all the people who used it.
Anyway, if this is really important, maybe somebody could dig up some other document that doesn't lend itself to misleading interpretations and solve the dispute

Syntilla · Post by **Syntilla** » Thu Feb 04, 2016 4:46 am

Mac of BIOnighT wrote:Yes, I did read it, but "may" doesn't mean "certainly does". I'm no expert, but in this case I believe it refers to the logo, not the term, while it's probably the case with "Coca Cola". If what other people said is correct (z-plane is a mathematical function), you can't copyright it, no more than you could copyright the name "mineral water". Again, I'm no expert, but I do not think Yamaha copyrighted the term FM, as I see it everywhere, and the reason is that FM is a physics thing, not an invented name. Either that, or they couldn't be bothered to sue all the people who used it.
Anyway, if this is really important, maybe somebody could dig up some other document that doesn't lend itself to misleading interpretation and solve the dispute

Anyone mind if I look out of my Windows?

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Thu Feb 04, 2016 5:04 am

The biggest non-issue of all time

Frantz · Post by **Frantz** » Thu Feb 04, 2016 5:28 am

Mac of BIOnighT wrote:Yes, I did read it, but "may" doesn't mean "certainly does". I'm no expert, but in this case I believe it refers to the logo, not the term, while it's probably the case with "Coca Cola". If what other people said is correct (z-plane is a mathematical function), you can't copyright it, no more than you could copyright the name "mineral water".

You certainly aren't an expert because now you're mixing up copyrights and trademarks.

We are talking about trademarks here, not copyrights.

If you look at the screenshot I posted before, you will see it says:

Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING

This is explained on many websites. Here is a concise explanation:

https://www.quora.com/How-do-you-determ ... nd-or-logo

It is crystal clear. E-mu has a live trademark in the U.S. on the words "Z-Plane" for synthesizers. This is most definitely not a logo trademark.

I am bored of this discussion. Let's get some Icarus demo sounds soon please.

Tone2 will release Icarus - 3D WaveTable Synthesizer