How do you structure a song??

[Ildon]

Do you ever feel like you've spread yourself too thin?

Lately I've been feeling like I should've start playing instruments at a young age, I should've forced myself into music lessons. Because now I find it hard to actually sit down and learn something on an instrument. If you said to me "play me a G major scale" I probably couldn't do it perfectly. I've just never sat down and learnt my instruments well enough, and I'm finding that in all aspects of my life. I tend to jump over the "beginner" stages and get stranded in the intermediate stages, and thus my mediocreness is solidified.

Kinda gash to be in that position.

Skipping stages in your growth is a bad idea, but I don't think that's what's happening with you. So you're not a virtuoso on your instrument. That's fine. I'm a keyboardist and I'm not ready to play in an orchestra on piano. You just like to compose more than play, it seems. It happens. Nothing wrong with it

[Amberience]

Basically I struggled to get away from an idea. Like I'll come up with a riff, and I fall into a trap of just repeating that same riff over and over. Bands I like seem to be able to go from riff to riff with ease and fluidity. Is that just down to talent and experience, or is there something I haven't learnt???

dunno if it can be learned - if you'd send me an eXT-project of that song I could add another part.

I often add two or more parts together which do not seem to have aynthing in do with each other when you listen to them seperately yet when you listen to the whole song it just gels. That's because I hear a new part in the one I'm starting with. I listen to it and the music progresses in my head. Perhaps you just need to learn to listne to your inner ear.

You are a good musician - I think you should be able to achieve this.

The XT project would be massive, and this is kinda for my university work next year. I'm getting an early start as they say!

I do appreciate everyones words though. This topic has helped me understand a few things about myself.

I have this lingering obsession with making sure these songs can be played live... when I should be concerntrating on how it all sounds before I even consider the live thing. I think I'm insane.

[jens]

The XT project would be massive, and this is kinda for my university work next year. I'm getting an early start as they say!

if you render just the basic riff, bass and drums it should be rather small - that would be enough for me - there'd be no need in using what I would add - it would just be for demonstrating you where that riff could go to...

I have this lingering obsession with making sure these songs can be played live...

if I'd do this then probably 90% of my songs wouldn't exist. This of course doesn't mean I'll never play them live.

[Amberience]

Do you ever feel like you've spread yourself too thin?

Lately I've been feeling like I should've start playing instruments at a young age, I should've forced myself into music lessons. Because now I find it hard to actually sit down and learn something on an instrument. If you said to me "play me a G major scale" I probably couldn't do it perfectly. I've just never sat down and learnt my instruments well enough, and I'm finding that in all aspects of my life. I tend to jump over the "beginner" stages and get stranded in the intermediate stages, and thus my mediocreness is solidified.

Kinda gash to be in that position.

Skipping stages in your growth is a bad idea, but I don't think that's what's happening with you. So you're not a virtuoso on your instrument. That's fine. I'm a keyboardist and I'm not ready to play in an orchestra on piano. You just like to compose more than play, it seems. It happens. Nothing wrong with it

I think I have skipped stages.

I never sat down with my bass for example and did the whole 1/2/3/4 on each string until my fingers bled. I never learnt the major scale on the fretboard properly. I could probably do it, but it would be by ear and not by knowledge.

I know a fuckload of Tool songs, because I'm obsessed with the band to be quite frank. Their songs make sense to me. But it too me quite a while to manage to play any Red Hot Chili Peppers or Rage Against The Machine.

I never went through the "student" phase.. I kind of merged the student phase with the composer phase... not sure if its a good idea. Maybe I should go back to basics.

[BONES]

After 25 years the extent of my knowledge is f**k-all. I know a third and a fifth, major and minor [kind of] and how a scale is constructed from any given root note [basically]. Mostly I just play notes and see what works with what. We use a fair amount of string chords and they are all constructed by trial and error. Everything else is pretty mcuh pure randomness - we just hammer away until we get something that works. In one way it might be really cool to have the knowledge to proceed from a starting point through all these stages and arrive at a finished piece but I don't know how much satisfaction it would bring.

[jens]

Both your guitar-playing and your bass-playing are very good Andy-baby - there's no need to be able to play 'properly' (of course unless playing in a top40 cover-band is what you're after )

[jens]

b.t.w.: I have a mp3 where Tool are covering comfortably numb - they utterly suck!

[Ildon]

Do you ever feel like you've spread yourself too thin?

Lately I've been feeling like I should've start playing instruments at a young age, I should've forced myself into music lessons. Because now I find it hard to actually sit down and learn something on an instrument. If you said to me "play me a G major scale" I probably couldn't do it perfectly. I've just never sat down and learnt my instruments well enough, and I'm finding that in all aspects of my life. I tend to jump over the "beginner" stages and get stranded in the intermediate stages, and thus my mediocreness is solidified.

Kinda gash to be in that position.

Skipping stages in your growth is a bad idea, but I don't think that's what's happening with you. So you're not a virtuoso on your instrument. That's fine. I'm a keyboardist and I'm not ready to play in an orchestra on piano. You just like to compose more than play, it seems. It happens. Nothing wrong with it

I think I have skipped stages.

I never sat down with my bass for example and did the whole 1/2/3/4 on each string until my fingers bled. I never learnt the major scale on the fretboard properly. I could probably do it, but it would be by ear and not by knowledge.

I know a fuckload of Tool songs, because I'm obsessed with the band to be quite frank. Their songs make sense to me. But it too me quite a while to manage to play any Red Hot Chili Peppers or Rage Against The Machine.

I never went through the "student" phase.. I kind of merged the student phase with the composer phase... not sure if its a good idea. Maybe I should go back to basics.

Well don't confuse performing with composing. They're two different beasts. You definitely didn't skip any stages in composing, but in performing... it would seem so. Your focus now should be on learning your instrument better, probably.

And yeah, BONES/NOVAkILL is a great example of talented earballing. When you're composing, don't think so much about the science of it all. Think about what you like doing and what you want to do and run with it! Theory has the potential to help, playing an instrument has the potential to help, but you can either compose or you can't, and you can, even if you do it differently.

[Amberience]

b.t.w.: I have a mp3 where Tool are covering comfortably numb - they utterly suck!

Are you sure its them?? I've never heard of that

[Amberience]

Lot of helpful comments in this thread.

If anyone is interested in music that kind of revolves around a theme and toys with it in various ways, you could checkout Catch 33 by Meshuggah and anything by ISIS - probably Oceanic as its my fave at the moment!

I'm bummed about missing ISIS play at KOKO last sunday. They did the whole Oceanic album live.. would've been a memory to treasure. But oh well..

And no, I don't really wanna be in a top-40 "look at me! I'm just like [insert icon here] !!" type band

I want that personal growth. That spiritual progression you can get from music.. but damnit, hurry the fark up!

[Ildon]

[Amberience]

On a different note: why the name Ildon??

[Amberience]

On a different note: My friend who is from Nebraska got one of those "become a registrar for free" thingies.. he got it under the name Senor Q. Awesome

He's a god.

[jens]

b.t.w.: I have a mp3 where Tool are covering comfortably numb - they utterly suck!

Are you sure its them?? I've never heard of that

yes, it's them - it's a life bootleg - that the sound quality totally sucks doesn't help either...

anyway: my point was that just because they're great at playing Tool-stuff doesn't mean they're great at playing other's stuff as well...

[Amberience]

b.t.w.: I have a mp3 where Tool are covering comfortably numb - they utterly suck!

Are you sure its them?? I've never heard of that

yes, it's them - it's a life bootleg - that the sound quality totally sucks doesn't help either...

anyway: my point was that just because they're great at playing Tool-stuff doesn't mean they're great at playing other's stuff as well...

Hey yeah, very good point. For instance, Staind once covered a Tool track... totally ruined it. Limp Bizkit also covered a track too, it sucked, although their Faith cover was pretty cool.

Have you ever heard Tools version of No Quarter by led zep? You really should, its amazing!