KVR Audio

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 1:06 am

haha, charade you are

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:13 am

So, is there any conclusion to be found in this thread ever since I stopped clicking on the reply notification link?

My conclusion: I use loops whenever I want and feel like. I draw myself a line between just slapping loops together and using them creatively (or inspirationally). But I've got no problem in case this fine line is positioned elsewhere for other folks. I've got no problem with folks slapping loops together and making a fortune, either. Apparently they've done something right (I mean, making a fortune, regardless whether your music sucks or not, isn't a bad thing per se, is it?).

- Sascha

brambos · Post by **brambos** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:44 am

Sascha Franck wrote:So, is there any conclusion to be found in this thread ever since I stopped clicking on the reply notification link?

Oh noes... Thread revival!

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 12:32 pm

brambos wrote:
Oh noes... Thread revival!

Pfft! It's not even a bump, yet!
Just wait until it's 2nd birthday.

- Sascha

Klemperer · Post by **Klemperer** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:00 am

P.T. wrote:Want to see my new novel?

I took pages from various other novels and put them together to make my new novel.

Cool, eh?

There are a few too many novels like this around, after Walter Benjamin (a communist, but now seen as some inspiration for snobs, not musical snobs though most of the time) wrote about it in about 1936. Or at least parts of novels. I still like the idea, but not what the snobs made out of it.

Sascha's conclusion is fine with me. And Shamann wrote nice things too here - you can find that everywhere - fragile egos who fear to be beaten, so they join big clubs or groups saying "using loops is da shit" or "using loops is the only form of art". Both views exist, first one is a tiny bit more popular now, second one was really popular in about 1995-2005 or around. I must have some hundreds of remarks like that in my archive

.

The nice thing of a world without self-criticism (face it, this is what people in the future will say about many of our more intellectual discussion) is: say someone, inspired by university-talks about "inauthenticity" (quite a commonplace some years ago, said: "you are not authentic anyway", and "using loops is the only way of inauthenticity, there is no personal self" and stuff like that.

Thus he or she copied and copied, be it music or words, and sold it as made himself (okay, a little bit strange, as he/she made the money and of course went to gigs or read it before snobs and other listeners as HIS or HER work, and got all personal angry if someone dared to find it not the masterpiece in itself, but anyway

).

Then fashion changed, a bit. Concerning music, "real instruments" were used a bit more again, companies sold more guitar-ampsims (there would have been not such a big market for them 10 years ago, apart from the fact that those plugins might have been cpu-hogs?).
People who liked the Walter Benjamin idea of just collecting other's works before silently changed their attitude often. So there was no discussion about it (that's what we do here for them, over the next 250 pages

)

Just that for them our discussion would not be very useful. Their world goes on without it.
They prefer being better than others, = snobs

. I know one radio-DJ who formerly said "you can ONLY use inauthentic parts of music, loops, samples, parts of records of others". Now he changed his mind, as fashion changed (purely accidental, of course...) without ever admitting it. Today he speaks about "this nice deconstruction of a guitar", 10 years before guitars were "that authentic analog shit" for him (don't ask me, there were a thousands in universities who said so, you call it "Pop-Diskurs" in Germany, just read some old issues of SPEX or "de:bug" or newspapers like "taz" or "Frankfurter Rundschau". Maybe as usual the "believers" of an ideology are more militant in Germany, but these things exist in Italy, USA and other parts of the world too)
The man listens to country music now.
Of course now another party could join in and say "what is country music more than the repetition of the repetition of an idea someone has had many decades ago" - and everything would start again

. Just that for those guys it isn't important what is going on. Be BETTER than the others and call the others idiots who want to be better - that's their conclusion, just that they wouldn't admit it.

So for me: the world would be a slightly funnier place for us without too many snobs. But forget it, at the moment.

Concerning music - we all know pieces made with the help of loops that we like, and some made without that we like.
The thread "song lyric novel" around here is a nice example how it can be fun citing stuff you know from other songs.

herodotus · Post by **herodotus** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 1:21 am

vurt wrote:haha, charade you are

You well heeled big wheel, you.

herodotus · Post by **herodotus** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 2:03 am

C'mon people, this thread is over 10 years old. We can make internet history.

aciddose · Post by **aciddose** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 2:17 am

I don't even use loops. I wrote a program to make my loops for me.

However, I stick up my nose at those of you who don't make your own synthesizers or hosts or computers or processors or keyboards or capacitors. 'Yall are just a bunch of posers.

trimph1 · Post by **trimph1** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 2:19 am

I don't even use any program to produce my loops...my loops produce themselves!!!

aciddose · Post by **aciddose** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 2:27 am

Your loops became self aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th.

cryophonik · Post by **cryophonik** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 2:54 am

I'm just gonna bump this one for the hell of it.

thecontrolcentre wrote:

Shabdahbriah · Post by **Shabdahbriah** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:08 am

herodotus wrote:... But in electronica, you are supposed to write everything, lest you suffer the contempt of your peers. Why?

only if you do "12-tone" stuff. everything-else is irrelevant.

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:15 am

3*s wrote:What some people tend to not realise is regardless of how good your multisampled drum or guitar library is, and regardless of your programming skill, it's not going to sound as good as a real drummer. The exact feel of each hit from a good drummer will depend entirely on what he's playing, rhythmically and stylistically. If I had a soundproof recording room with countless mics and kits, as well as some guy who's fluent in all different drumming styles who'll sit there all day untill I say "play this," I'd write my own acoustic parts and feed them to him. Since I don't have that luxury, I'm limited to loop slicing for the most part. Multisamples work for some styles, some pop or popier rock for instance, and they dont for others like funk or harder rock.

Well... consider that this is ten years ago...

My intention with a drum part is always that it should work as a real drummer's part does. I've been involved a little bit with what happens to get a drum production together and I - being me, in my actual life - would prefer BFD because of the expense, the time. I find that whole kind of thing enjoyable and absent the consideration of money/time I would rather do live-totally-real recording. I don't have "countless" kits and mics but I have wildly more than I would IRL. And I'm interested in getting it together myself, and pushing myself.

If I have an 'objection' to loops, it is along the lines of this statement, though.
You're towing in something that was not done with your other bits in mind. There is no responsiveness to the other parts. It may be inorganic. As to "was Jimmy Page cheating by using Bonham?" that's a reduction, but Bonham is responsive in real time, it isn't comparable compositionally really at all.

However there are different things in music and different goals than what I mean here. You might well learn from a Terry Bozzio MIDI or something. You might get your thing together crafting bass lines and such to a better drum part than you're ever going to manage on your own devices.

& _creatively_ there may be a prefab bit of work that is probably going to mean the best outcome for this or that reason.
The objections? Well clearly we see it's convenient - and a type of snobbery itself - to bundle it up into 'people being snobbish' and that's bad. But I think ultimately, compositionally, only ever towing in somebody's part totally from the outside is somewhat suspect. It isn't for me to judge, I'm not cheated by it.

And there are things in samples such as the thundersheet patches - totally loops - in VSL Percussion, and these long evolving things Soundiron recorded in Cymbology that most people are never going to come up with, lacking the opportunies and the time and the budget, that you may as well exploit. And the jazz gestures of WarpIV music's horn libs, or grace note varieties in a VSL lib, it would be counterproductive to toss a lot of time into DYI here. So, like everything else, music is contextual.

aciddose · Post by **aciddose** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 4:01 am

jancivil wrote:But I think ultimately, compositionally, only ever towing in somebody's part totally from the outside is somewhat suspect.

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 5:34 am

rather disquieting but I got a hearty laugh in the end. I don't think they're very worried about composition. If I had a big pile of weed I could watch more, but sober not so much.

Could someone please explain anti-loop snobbery?