Unreal! Nine Volt Audio going out of business!

[Lode_Runner]

Personally, I'd avoid buying a KONTAKT library from a dev that has announced he's closing his doors, as it basically means if you have any problems running the library in KONTAKT you can forget updates or support. It takes a leap of faith I wouldn't make, that his scripts won't have any issues with future versions of KONTAKT.

But my experience with this dev was signing up for a library giveaway they did and finding that for one week every time I tried to download the library via a special app they use, their server was down or beyond all reason slow. When I sent the dev an email, he never responded. And now, as the dev announces he's closing his doors, he starts doing a bunch of online advertising? Hmmm....

Good points. Then again, two years of use out of a $25 library might still be worth it.

I'm no scripting expert, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't imagine it would be a problem. I've never heard of any backwards compatibility problems in Kontakt where a library that was made for Kontakt 2 for example won't work in Kontakt 5. There's still plenty of Kontakt 2 libraries out there, and I wouldn't hesitate to buy them out of concern that they may not work (concern that they may be limited in what they can do on the other hand may make me look for something newer and better). Admittedly I haven't seen anything still out there for Kontakt 1, but I imagine that's probably not due to incompatibility issues, but more likely that there weren't as many third party libraries developed for the first version as other samplers were probably still more popular at that stage, and anything developed for the first version is probably very primitive by current standards.

I think it would also be in Native Instruments best interests to make sure new versions of Kontakt can play older libraries - one of the big selling points for Kontakt is the amount of third party libraries it can run, so they're not going to want to reduce the corpus by making older libraries obsolete, at least not until the libraries are well and truly outdated at which point I doubt the sample developers would still be trying to make them work in newer versions of Kontakt.

The other thing I would think is that newer versions of Kontakt would just offer more scripting options (eg the ability to map a different set of samples to the release of the sustain pedal depending on what notes are being held at the time, or the ability to morph between a straight sustain sample and a vibrato sample as the mod wheel is pushed etc) without changing the basics of scripting for older functions (eg mapping samples to be triggered for different velocities or for round robbin etc.) Someone like Evil Dragon or Gregjazz may be able to confirm or invalidate this thought?

Also, I expect that Nine Volt Audio will promptly sell their better libraries to another company on the day they close down. I can't see something like Taiko2 just being pulled off the market. I wouldn't be surprised if it shows up on Best Service or Sampleism. Otherwise, it seems an odd choice to not just leave the website there taking sales like Imperfect Samples are doing.

One more thought - how often are closing down sales legit. I've seen far to many Persian rug emporiums that are still going out of business after ten years.

[bigcat1969]

Good point, I've messed about with many Kontakt 2 and 4 libraries and they worked fine in 5. If you like hard rockin guitars, its not a bad price.
I'd forgotten, but some Nine Volt loops came with Studio One so I gave them a go in what I optimistically call a song. I thought they were actually quite nice and gave enough of an impression of a hard rock band that I'm taking a Tylonal before bed. They seem to smush together quite nicely and had a continuity of sound at the loop transitions that many loop collections don't seem to have. Overall definitely high quality loops. Since I'm old, grumpy, think the Beatles got a bit noisy at times and prefer instruments to loops, I'll give it a miss, but you young whippersnappers might well like this pack based on what I heard (Big Bad Basses and Guitars mostly). It is certainly massive.

[Gregjazz]

I'm no scripting expert, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't imagine it would be a problem. I've never heard of any backwards compatibility problems in Kontakt where a library that was made for Kontakt 2 for example won't work in Kontakt 5. There's still plenty of Kontakt 2 libraries out there, and I wouldn't hesitate to buy them out of concern that they may not work (concern that they may be limited in what they can do on the other hand may make me look for something newer and better). Admittedly I haven't seen anything still out there for Kontakt 1, but I imagine that's probably not due to incompatibility issues, but more likely that there weren't as many third party libraries developed for the first version as other samplers were probably still more popular at that stage, and anything developed for the first version is probably very primitive by current standards.

I think it would also be in Native Instruments best interests to make sure new versions of Kontakt can play older libraries - one of the big selling points for Kontakt is the amount of third party libraries it can run, so they're not going to want to reduce the corpus by making older libraries obsolete, at least not until the libraries are well and truly outdated at which point I doubt the sample developers would still be trying to make them work in newer versions of Kontakt.

While for the most part libraries created with earlier versions of Kontakt are still compatible with the latest Kontakt, there may be some circumstances where their functionality isn't retained. Native Instruments has been pretty good about leaving old functions and variables active as to preserve compatibility, but there are a few instances where things might change.

For example, currently the "find_group" function returns "0" if no group is found. It's been pointed out a while back that this function should actually return "-1", since "0" would reference the very first group. However, if Native Instruments changed this, it would cause incompatibilities with some older libraries.

Also, there was a bug with the way impulse responses get loaded in Kontakt 2 (and 3 as well, I believe). Fortunately, there's also a workaround. However, I noticed that the workaround for Kontakt 2 and 3 doesn't work in Kontakt 4 and 5.

I can't say for sure if more situations like this will arise as subsequent versions of Kontakt is released. While backwards compatibility is nice, there's a certain degree where you have to make sure it doesn't hinder the application. I mean, I suppose Kontakt could eventually implement some sort of version emulator to address that if it becomes an issue, but that might just bog down the application more than it's worth.

The other thing I would think is that newer versions of Kontakt would just offer more scripting options (eg the ability to map a different set of samples to the release of the sustain pedal depending on what notes are being held at the time, or the ability to morph between a straight sustain sample and a vibrato sample as the mod wheel is pushed etc) without changing the basics of scripting for older functions (eg mapping samples to be triggered for different velocities or for round robbin etc.) Someone like Evil Dragon or Gregjazz may be able to confirm or invalidate this thought?

Newer versions of Kontakt do have a tendency to just add additional scripting features, effects, etc. That being said, they do make changes to replace old methods of accomplishing a task with completely new, more efficient ways. So the old methods effectively become archaic. For example, loading wallpaper background images in Kontakt 2/3 as well as the set_skin_offset function: both of these have essentially become antiquated with the addition of resource containers in Kontakt 4.

By the way, all those concepts you referenced are currently possible with Kontakt's scripting, although they're on the complex side of things. I could see Native Instruments adding additional scripting capabilities to make those processes simpler, or even building in native controls for that in Kontakt's back-end editor.

[murnau]

for the one-shots at least they come as .wav anyway with .nki or compressed kontakt format?

[arkmabat]

for the one-shots at least they come as .wav anyway with .nki or compressed kontakt format?

Which packs have one-shots?

[ZombyWoof]

Normally I would like both the REX and RMX versions. Since I can just run the REX libraries through the SAGE Converter that comes with Stylus RMX to convert to RMX, is there any advantage to buying both versions for the extra $40 (plus the cost of the external HD option)?

[Gonga]

I never get these out of business sales. All you have is a website, let it just sit there and if someone wants to buy your library once in a while, they'll be able to do so! Unless his webstore is not automatic, which would surprise me! Someone like me who sells small libraries makes enough money every months to make it worthwhile, I cannot imagine he would do less, making the whole thing unworthy for him...

You have to pay for the hosting and merchant services though. Maybe they are not making enough to cover those? Or it could be a personal issue, nothing at all to do with money.

I suspect it has to do with the fact that some lowlife's been broadcasting his work all over the Internet.

[TristezaOrange]

Sad that they are closing up shop.

Happy that I can finally justify getting Shimmer and Shake to myself!

[hollowsun]

I suspect it has to do with the fact that some lowlife's been broadcasting his work all over the Internet.

^^^ That

That's an edifying read ... well, initially at least! My understanding (FWIW) is that that really hurt him.


Stephen

[Compyfox]

I'm slowly a bit worried.
I contacted Kyle like three times by now and didn't get a response. Important questions regarding the sale even.


Somebody in here has contact to him and knows what's up?
For example:
- will Taiko's price stay as low?
- when the 3 days "special guaranteed price" is over, and a lot of people jumped on that deal, does that mean the GroupBuy will have no success?
- which of the current sample sets use multi-layered RMX files? (something that's still not documented!)
- can't we pay 40 quids extra without the HDD and get all other formats we might need on top of it? (according to FAQ - nope)


All valid and important questions. And it's been over 24 hours from the initial 72 hours already.

[hollowsun]

Devs do have a life outside their places of work!!!

Give the chap a break, especially as he appears to be on the verge of closing down what he's put so much time and effort and money and talent into building over the years.

Maybe, now that the chips are - sadly - down for him, he's taking time off/out. Can't say I blame him.

I can't think of a suitable analogy but perhaps if you'd just been sacked from your job, you might not take kindly to people hassling you over the job you used to do!

Kyle owes you/me/us nothing under the circumstances and it must be very painful for him to have come to this decision (i.e. to close his thing down).

Please show this talented man some respect when he's down rather than expect bargains, immediate email responses and so on.

But let all this be a lesson in the damage that piracy CAN do ... i.e. totally f'k a perfectly legit and talented developer over. Which is why it shouldn't be tolerated and just cannot be justified (however much some might like to try and justify it with twisted logic and playing the 'grey area' - or even the nonsensical 'fair use' - gambit). If someone puts (a lot of) time, (a lot of) money, resources, talent, etc., into something, you pay for it. If you can't afford it - or can't justify the expenditure - tough sh!t... you can't have it. End of story.

My thoughts are with Kyle, those that he employed, his family - I can't imagine what it must be like to be in his position.

Very sad.


Stephen

[murnau]

i can understand that issue with piracy but then again not: i think most people that download the stuff illegally never really considered to buy it anyway.

ahh.. its always the same old debate.

[Tricky-Loops]

Devs do have a life outside their places of work!!!

[V0RT3X]

I know how hard it is to make samples as i tend to make my own sample libraries. However when your doing it on the professional scale that this man has done it must be a very crushing blow to see his work pasted all over the net. It takes TONS of work when trying to create a professional multi-sample library. It's almost scary how much effort is involved.

I hope he can move on and find something equally fulfilling in life to replace this loss.

[Compyfox]

Please show this talented man some respect when he's down rather than expect bargains, immediate email responses and so on.

I give this man all the respect he deserves. He's a friendly chap with top products.

But... if you offer something, with a time limit and a no guaranteed "low price" after the 72hours (due to the fact that most people jumped on the current deal), you have to sit down and answer questions eventually. Especially if your budget is tight.

And these questions are valid.


Again - huge respect to him. I'm sad about this as well. But you can't turn radio silent and expect possible customers to figure out everything themselves (especially if it't not covered in the FAQ).