KVR Audio

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:24 am

What does it matter? It's a self-contained beast, what support to do think you need for it? If mine broke, I'd just take it to a TV repair shop, a phone repair place or maybe a specialist synth repairer.

idfpower · Post by **idfpower** » Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:15 pm

What does it matter if new firmware will be provided? Well thank God you're not in charge of IK's PR & sales

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:32 pm

What would be the point of new firmware? It's analogue hardware, not software. We got one big update to change the behaviour of the edit matrix, which means that the labels on the front panel no longer show the correct thing. It gave us more control but at the cost of comprehensibility. Hopefully they learned their lesson and won't f**k with it again because they made it worse.

idfpower · Post by **idfpower** » Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:45 pm

BONES wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:32 pm What would be the point of new firmware? It's analogue hardware, not software.

Yeah, no reason whatsoever, that's why we're on firmware v. 1.1.4. ... Let's just agree to disagree.

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Wed Feb 17, 2021 11:17 pm

And what has changed? What's been improved? More to the point, what's wrong with it now that you think it still needs more firmware updates? Most hardware synths get a bug-fix update or two, in the first year after release, then nothing for the rest of their lives. It's just how hardware works. e.g. I've had my Ultranova for 8 or 9 years and it's never had a firmware update. Still works fine, though.

idfpower · Post by **idfpower** » Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:09 am

It's not about fixing the unit per se - it's about knowing whether the company is still willing to invest in the original line - be it support, or new products.

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:37 am

That's absolutely absurd, a level of paranoia that almost beggars belief. What difference does it make to one product whether or not the company ever releases another? If anything, it can be a boost. e.g. Since GM packed up and left Australia last year, prices of their cars have increased substantially in the used car market, up to 40% in some cases, and collectible GM-Holden vehicles have been setting records at auction. And the fact that Moog, Oberheim and Sequential Circuits were out of business for 30+ years didn't seem to affect the popularity of their products, either.

idfpower · Post by **idfpower** » Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:49 pm

BONES, you don't get it, that's fine. Really.

kritikon · Post by **kritikon** » Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:49 pm

Yaris is only monophonic isn't it? Pretty sure Corollas are polyphonic...

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:23 am

idfpower wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:49 pmBONES, you don't get it, that's fine. Really.

No, I get it just fine, you're the guy living in La-La Land. But, clearly, you're happy in your limited, little life so who am I to judge?

lfm · Post by **lfm** » Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:36 am

BONES wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:37 am What difference does it make to one product whether or not the company ever releases another? If anything, it can be a boost. e.g.

If you are to throw your money at a company, I think it matters how previous products were supported or not, and bugs fixed and whatnot.

The attitude of company. Are you left with bricked units?

I bought SampleTank 1 Piano collection like 20 years ago and was ignored by IKMM in issues I contacted about. I even phoned HQ in Italy and never got a reply even saying I would have over phone.

Then years went by and IKMM released a 64-bit SampleTank, if it was ST3, don't remember. They gave away this plugin with some content.

But import feature from older ST like my PianoCollection were not in this free version. You had to buy ST3 in order to load your already bought content.

This tells a lot about the company - and you just don't go there again.
You are already a paying customer and they treat you bad. They give away plugin with content - but as old customer you have to pay again to use a bought product in 64-bit environment.

So my first experience with IKMM was correct, and only got confirmation later what kind of company this is.

So I always contact a new company with some silly questions about a product to test what kind of company this is. And depending on reply you can tell if to throw money at this company or not. Simple but good test.

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:52 am

lfm wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:36 amIf you are to throw your money at a company, I think it matters how previous products were supported or not, and bugs fixed and whatnot.

Why? I've never had the tiniest issue with any of that. Hardware companies rarely do their own support, outside the country they are in, it's almost always down to 3rd party repairers, who usually fix half-a-dozen or more different brands. The closest I've ever come was buying a brand new Korg DSS-1 in Hong Kong, for half what it cost locally, only to get it home and find out it was DOA and Korg's Australian distributor (understandably) wouldn't fix it under warranty. My fault, not theirs.

The attitude of company. Are you left with bricked units?

You're talking about a one in a million possibility, do you really think you are that unlucky?

I bought SampleTank 1 Piano collection like 20 years ago and was ignored by IKMM in issues I contacted about. I even phoned HQ in Italy and never got a reply even saying I would have over phone.

So you are allowing a single incident, 20 years in the past, to dictate your current attitudes? How many of the people responsible for that experience do you even think still work for IK?

Then years went by and IKMM released a 64-bit SampleTank, if it was ST3, don't remember. They gave away this plugin with some content. But import feature from older ST like my PianoCollection were not in this free version. You had to buy ST3 in order to load your already bought content.

Are you seriously complaining that IK gave you a product for free? Spare me days!

You are already a paying customer and they treat you bad. They give away plugin with content - but as old customer you have to pay again to use a bought product in 64-bit environment.

So? I don't see any problem with that at all. IK is a business, not a charity, and there was nothing stopping you from continuing to use your old 32 bit version for as long as you wanted/needed to. You seem to think the world owes you, it does not.

So my first experience with IKMM was correct, and only got confirmation later what kind of company this is.

I dunno, the way you tell the story, I think it says a lot more about your sense of entitlement than it does about them.

So I always contact a new company with some silly questions about a product to test what kind of company this is. And depending on reply you can tell if to throw money at this company or not. Simple but good test.

And if you tried that on me, I'd make sure I gave you answers that ensured you never became a customer because pains in the arse like you are not worth the hassle.

lfm · Post by **lfm** » Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:11 am

BONES wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:52 am
So I always contact a new company with some silly questions about a product to test what kind of company this is. And depending on reply you can tell if to throw money at this company or not. Simple but good test.
And if you tried that on me, I'd make sure I gave you answers that ensured you never became a customer because pains in the arse like you are not worth the hassle.

Yes, potential customer asking a question on email and you already know this is non-wanted customer?
That BONES strategy, to borrow from Dr Phil
- how is that working for you?

Seems you are in the habit to empty your account to anybody out there disregarding how they treat you.....it's your money.....

My reasoning is companies that do not care to answer potential sales questions will never help you when you might have issues with a product later. Simple logic to me.

Most companies treasure long customer relations - and so do I.

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Fri Feb 19, 2021 7:09 am

"how is that working for you?" - it's always worked really, really well because most people are quite reasonable and the ones who aren't end up costing you money, so you're better off without them.

"My reasoning is companies that do not care to answer potential sales questions will never help you when you might have issues with a product later." Which goes to what I said - someone who goes to those lengths is only going to be trouble, sucking up your limited support resources with unreasonable expectations/demands, so your best bet is to put them off so you never have to deal with them again. There are plenty of fish in the sea, it doesn't hurt to throw one back every now and then.

"Most companies treasure long customer relations" - only where it's profitable for them.

Personally, I don't give a shit about companies. If they make a good product that meets my needs, works as expected and offers reasonable value, I'll buy it. Anything beyond what's there on Day One is irrelevant. I had a lot of issues with Cubase but I got sick of exchanging emails with support before they got sick of responding. Ditto for a few lesser issues I've had with Studio One. In both cases they closed the tickets because I stopped responding. And that's typical of my experiences, support staff are invariably helpful to me and often go above and beyond. That you seem to have different experiences suggests to me that your expectations are out of whack with reality. I certainly see that as the case with your Sampletank story.

lfm · Post by **lfm** » Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:32 am

It's your money, BONES, do with it as you please.
You are known for being a wonder of calm and collected here I am sure that goes everywhere and you are always treated "ivariably well" everywhere else too.

Just believe in the statement of my wallet - everytime you pay you say "I like what you are doing".
Works for me, there is always alternatives where I put my money instead.

IK announces UNO Synth Pro