KVR Audio

zzz00m · Post by **zzz00m** » Mon May 01, 2023 4:35 pm

That's a joke, right?

Aloysius · Post by **Aloysius** » Mon May 01, 2023 4:40 pm

A dirgruntled Mac / Pro Tools user?

KLANGRAUM2 · Post by **KLANGRAUM2** » Tue May 02, 2023 9:27 am

Now, it has a nice GUI. What else? Because of the problems, it's always a discussion and this is great value on the market. Turning off Defender real-time scan seems to have positive effects too (sometimes).

KLANGRAUM2 · Post by **KLANGRAUM2** » Tue May 02, 2023 12:06 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXxbUmmiS9Q Latest Turbo Start script excludes VST directories from Defender virus scan. Should do the trick now, but you have to edit the paths. After the last test, Live was usable after 12 seconds. Read the description under the video for more information.

zzz00m · Post by **zzz00m** » Tue May 02, 2023 10:43 pm

KLANGRAUM2 wrote: ↑Tue May 02, 2023 12:06 pm Latest Turbo Start script excludes VST directories from Defender virus scan. Should do the trick now, but you have to edit the paths. After the last test, Live was usable after 12 seconds. Read the description under the video for more information.

Already have all DAW hosts, their plugin scanners, and plugin folders excluded from Defender. Even have the Ableton "index.exe" excluded.

Still have slow scanning, but only with Ableton Live 11. Seems that Defender always runs a very heavy load during Ableton startup and scan, regardless of these exclusions. I thought maybe that Defender is ignoring the exclusions for some reason, but when I disable real-time protection completely, Ableton still takes its time with a scan.

My other DAWs are very fast at scanning.

sQeetz · Post by **sQeetz** » Wed May 03, 2023 5:10 am

Live starts on an instant here. And I also have a ton of plugins...

anttimaatteri · Post by **anttimaatteri** » Wed May 03, 2023 4:48 pm

between "initalizing", "loading the template", acc. to splash text^^, and seeing the gui its usually 10-15secs at most. depending on the templateset i guess it may take longer time but not that much longer.
but yes than scanning process is somehow annoying. also depends on the plugins - not the quantity, the quality^^. have no problems though since i cut down the amount for about 70%, cleaned all 32bits, all demos, all halfarsed releases etc etc.
may help a bit if all plugins loading of the template are set to DEACTIVATED on start.
on new plugins isntalled i usually cancel the rescan process and start it manually again by setting off-on the folders

thecontrolcentre · Post by **thecontrolcentre** » Wed May 03, 2023 5:18 pm

Live 11 starts quickly here, maybe 10-20 seconds, BUT it then spends around 10-15 minutes scanning before any newly installed plugins show up in the browser, which is a pain if I only started Live in order to try out a new vst. I usually go and do something else for 15 minutes while it sorts itself out.

zzz00m · Post by **zzz00m** » Wed May 03, 2023 10:44 pm

thecontrolcentre wrote: ↑Wed May 03, 2023 5:18 pm Live 11 starts quickly here, maybe 10-20 seconds, BUT it then spends around 10-15 minutes scanning before any newly installed plugins show up in the browser, which is a pain if I only started Live in order to try out a new vst. I usually go and do something else for 15 minutes while it sorts itself out.

Same: Live 11 opens here ready to go with a new open set in 19 seconds. So that part is good!

But then it always stays in the background plug-in scan mode for a while. That's very annoying if waiting to try a newly installed plug-in. In that case, often I just open Reaper and get on with the tryout!

Even if I start Live and let the scan finish, close Live, and restart it. It scans again for no good reason! Live should be able to detect if any changes have been made to the plug-in folders, and just scan the changes if there are any, or quit!!!

Harry_HH · Post by **Harry_HH** » Wed May 03, 2023 11:15 pm

zzz00m wrote: ↑Wed May 03, 2023 10:44 pm
thecontrolcentre wrote: ↑Wed May 03, 2023 5:18 pm Live 11 starts quickly here, maybe 10-20 seconds, BUT it then spends around 10-15 minutes scanning before any newly installed plugins show up in the browser, which is a pain if I only started Live in order to try out a new vst. I usually go and do something else for 15 minutes while it sorts itself out.
Same: Live 11 opens here ready to go with a new open set in 19 seconds. So that part is good!

But then it always stays in the background plug-in scan mode for a while. That's very annoying if waiting to try a newly installed plug-in. In that case, often I just open Reaper and get on with the tryout!

Even if I start Live and let the scan finish, close Live, and restart it. It scans again for no good reason! Live should be able to detect if any changes have been made to the plug-in folders, and just scan the changes if there are any, or quit!!!

This seems to be the most common way it works for many people. At least you can start working (with your other plugins/midi/audio) in spite of the background scan of the new installed plugins - in the earlier versions of the Live 11 you had to wait the (long) scanning, before you could start to do anything.

zzz00m · Post by **zzz00m** » Thu May 04, 2023 12:27 am

Harry_HH wrote: ↑Wed May 03, 2023 11:15 pm
This seems to be the most common way it works for many people. At least you can start working (with your other plugins/midi/audio) in spite of the background scan of the new installed plugins - in the earlier versions of the Live 11 you had to wait the (long) scanning, before you could start to do anything.

But the fact that many other DAWs don't behave this way should be a good reason for Ableton to level up. Improve the user experience!

KLANGRAUM2 · Post by **KLANGRAUM2** » Thu May 04, 2023 9:22 am

After testing several scenarios, it was obvious, that the Qt runtime, which is Live build on, is very slow at first start/initialization/cache. So, the script does not much performancewise. This behavior led to wrong assumptions.
Here is a quote from the Qt-developer forum: "Only the first application startup will be slow, since that has to populate the cache. All further apps start faster."
This means that the Qt runtime libraries must first be loaded into the cache, but are then still available for other apps. I hope that explains things.

Sorry for that, Ableton can't do much, and we can't do much to speed up Live, when it is started after Windows reboot. The question still remains why Live is doing these scans at startup, which makes the situation even more problematic.

My latest test: (script does minimal changes)
Live start after full reboot: 4 min
Live start after starting it once before: 15 sec

I'm out on that problem-solving. It's a mess.

kmonkey · Post by **kmonkey** » Thu May 04, 2023 10:42 am

It is quite obvious they changed something in v11 and on Windows VST scanning is horrendous. I don't have any issue with how fast the program boots up that's not the question. The question is why does it take from 3 to 5 minutes for a new VST plugin to show up in the browser?
While every other app I tried such as Reason 12, Bitwig, or Cubase - they scan for "new" content in VST folder at startup and it usually takes around 10-20 seconds after that, it's instant every time machine is turned on (until something new is installed).

KLANGRAUM2 · Post by **KLANGRAUM2** » Thu May 04, 2023 11:05 am

I guess they used a new version of Qt. I'm finished with that. Qt Core or additional Qt libraries seem to be the showstopper. We have to wait some minutes after Windows reboot, leave the computer always on and then have a fast Live start. The plugin/index scan is an absurdity on top.
I never experienced something strange with a program in general. With Renoise everything always went in seconds with every version. From Renoise Dev: "We use a custom application framework that has been developed in-house over many years."
If it were an Office application, I wouldn't care, but as a DAW, for capturing musical ideas, it should be usable immediately, because you quickly lose a musical idea from your head.

kmonkey · Post by **kmonkey** » Thu May 04, 2023 11:56 am

KLANGRAUM2 wrote: ↑Thu May 04, 2023 11:05 am I guess they used a new version of Qt. I'm finished with that. Qt Core or additional Qt libraries seem to be the showstopper.

What is qt?

Live 11 sloooooow vst scanning