What is the attraction with logic ?

[Trensharo]

I can buy a 14" laptop with a good i7 or Ryzen 9 CPU an RTX4070 and a 144-165Hz QHD display and spec the RAM and Storage down to bare minimum. It will be multiple hundreds cheaper than any comparable MacBook Pro at comparable screen size

Any? Because, if you’ve been comparing things to Apple’s prices, you’re going to have to recalibrate. You can get substantially lower prices elsewhere. Throughout the later half of 2023 new 16 inch M1 MBP’s could regularly be had for £/$1300.

I've also got some bad news about IPS panels. Did you know companies like LG grade those panels, and the customers paying the most (whether through volume or individual price) generally get given the higher grade panels? This translates to things like better grey screen uniformity. IE Things which aren’t going to be apparent from a spec comparison. Though Apple won’t be issue free here, they have to worry more about keeping the likes of Photoshop users happy. AKA Users who will be more likely to notice bad uniformity and return a laptop because of it. Thus they tend to do better than the PC laptop average.

It’s also rare for other laptop IPS displays to have an equivalent performing polariser (off axis glow) to the one Apple uses, and it’s also unlikely to maintain better accuracy at higher colour gamuts (Apple do a really good job of factory calibration) here etc. In short, there are actually some reasons (beyond Muh Apple marketing) why Apple sometimes get away with charging more premium prices. I didn’t even mention speakers - which are, generally, garbage on a majority of PC laptops. Downward firing speakers should be illegal!

A newer PC Laptop in that price range is going to sh*t all over a base M1 Pro 16" MBP. Lol. Seriously. Stop it.

In 2024 I would never spend that kind of money on that machine, which you will only fine at those prices if pre-owned. Good Luck with that SSD/Reliability lottery.

[jancivil]

I had a copy of Logic 8 from late '09 when Cubase high latency had gotten unmanagable. It's very clear you get the key commands remembered, first. IMO its KCs are much better considered, ie., easier to remember and make a kind of sense, while Cubase has so many defaults that don't and are just in the way when I'm creating ones that make sense to me.
But then VE Pro comes out which obviated enough of the Cubase on Mac slowness and became in more than one key way essential to a larger project conception, and Logic or to be more precise AU is not built for ease of connection with VEP for shit and that was that. Basically a big workaround. You can just set up a template once you sorted it obviously, but I may well need the frame to be unique, not some massive thing to subtract from. Cubase is simple and any idiot can see what to do from the interface.

Apple has been making whack decisions for years now that irritate tf out of me. EG: making Mac OS as much like iOS as they could. System Preferences now "Settings" from that, reduced capability therein, and when you open it it's always "Appearances", which isn't at the top at all. I don't leave applications open by long habit but that's the only way to avoid 'Appearances' as the first look, leave Settings be. I basically need to see 'Wifi', a lot, sadly. This is what they think of the end user, we just want to look at the thing and dick around idiotically, this is number one. So it's an annoying reminder of why I hate the world.

[mheo]

Not surprisingly, this thread about Logic immediately became : "What could possibly justify Apple's unjustifiable existence?".
Never fails!

Yup... all the Apple haters cannot restrain themselves from spamming Mac threads.

The word "hate" is a polarising word. Personally, I neither love or hate Apple products. I have an iphone 13 in my pocket, I neither love or hate it. Its a good phone,its my preferred brand of phone. Polarising words are good marketing tools.

Well, I've owned 6 different macs until today, among Macbook pro, mini and imac, plus two ipads. I wouldn't call myself "an Apple hater". I am still using an intel imac. This supposed "hate/love" attitude is just bullshit. My dream remains Logic for Windows. Who knows...

[mheo]

[pdxindy]

This supposed "hate/love" attitude is just bullshit.

Just cause you aren't one doesn't mean there aren't plenty of Apple haters. It is impossible to have a Mac thread here without multiple people posting that Apple sucks.

[Bunny_boy]

My dream remains Logic for Windows. Who knows...

Just get a copy of Win XP and Logic 5

[revvy]

My dream remains Logic for Windows. Who knows...

Just get a copy of Win XP and Logic 5

DIdn't Logic 5 require a dongle...?

[Bunny_boy]

My dream remains Logic for Windows. Who knows...

Just get a copy of Win XP and Logic 5

DIdn't Logic 5 require a dongle...?

I can't remember last week never mind 20 years ago!
Although in this case the dongle would be finding a dead old PC

[mheo]

Of course, still have it (USB). I also have the Steinberg VST edition's "parallel port" dongle. Bought them 25 years ago or so... Cubase on Windows 98se was a nightmare. Apple bought E-magic some years later. Protools was still an "Apple only" product (way too expensive, it needed external hardware. Only used in recording studio). Logic and Cubase price... I guess about 500€ each. Rather affordable BUT sold separately (meaning you had to chose between PC or mac edition. I had to switch to mac because of that). Sounds like prehistory

[ahuman]

I can buy a 14" laptop with a good i7 or Ryzen 9 CPU an RTX4070 and a 144-165Hz QHD display and spec the RAM and Storage down to bare minimum. It will be multiple hundreds cheaper than any comparable MacBook Pro at comparable screen size

Any? Because, if you’ve been comparing things to Apple’s prices, you’re going to have to recalibrate. You can get substantially lower prices elsewhere. Throughout the later half of 2023 new 16 inch M1 MBP’s could regularly be had for £/$1300.

I've also got some bad news about IPS panels. Did you know companies like LG grade those panels, and the customers paying the most (whether through volume or individual price) generally get given the higher grade panels? This translates to things like better grey screen uniformity. IE Things which aren’t going to be apparent from a spec comparison. Though Apple won’t be issue free here, they have to worry more about keeping the likes of Photoshop users happy. AKA Users who will be more likely to notice bad uniformity and return a laptop because of it. Thus they tend to do better than the PC laptop average.

It’s also rare for other laptop IPS displays to have an equivalent performing polariser (off axis glow) to the one Apple uses, and it’s also unlikely to maintain better accuracy at higher colour gamuts (Apple do a really good job of factory calibration) here etc. In short, there are actually some reasons (beyond Muh Apple marketing) why Apple sometimes get away with charging more premium prices. I didn’t even mention speakers - which are, generally, garbage on a majority of PC laptops. Downward firing speakers should be illegal!

A newer PC Laptop in that price range is going to sh*t all over a base M1 Pro 16" MBP. Lol. Seriously. Stop it.

In 2024 I would never spend that kind of money on that machine, which you will only fine at those prices if pre-owned. Good Luck with that SSD/Reliability lottery.

Please move this whole discussion elsewhere and don't f**k this thread up with your Pc vs Mac stuff. I really appreciate to read about users here actually talk about Logic Pro.

[PAK]

The FalconResources UFS is not installed in the same directory as the Sound Libraries by default, so there is no risk of it "deleting your sound libraries”

You ignored I speculated about this, then TESTED the uninstaller! (Falcon v3.02 has just been released, thus good timing )

What you’re claiming DID NOT happen here, with the latest Falcon. There’s 2 default locations for libraries without changing preferences. UVI wouldn’t know if you’ve placed libraries into either directory. But it’s all meaningless anyway, because it doesn’t leave the “500MB file” behind as you claimed! The fact that you ran with the initial speculation, whilst ignoring I found otherwise, all comes across as very disingenuous.There’s no need for you to “email the dev” because their current uninstaller works fine!

CCleaner does a good job of removing "Orphaned" Registry Entries

None of these programs are to be fully trusted, especially without manually verifying. Anyone who does IS, more likely than not, going to run into issues at some point. A simplified approach, of keeping applications and settings in their own directories and files, makes for a more robust way of doing things. Many of the ways Windows does things was born from an era of limitations and shared resources, and kept around because of legacy compatibility. No matter how much you might want to convince yourself otherwise, it’s ultimately easier to achieve a 100% clean uninstall on Mac OS, largely because there’s no registry to deal with.

This doesn't mean there aren't a number of devs who should be doing a better job, of providing Mac uninstallers, in cases where simply removing the app from Applications is not enough to remove what they installed.

[PAK]

Please move this whole discussion elsewhere and don't f**k this thread up with your Pc vs Mac stuff. I really appreciate to read about users here actually talk about Logic Pro.

The whole thing about Logic is it requires a Mac, which is when talk is introduced about pricing (which isn't actually a Mac VS PC thing, but about what you can afford VS what you can't). I thought it important to point out that a lot of the pricing claims some make are just plain wrong, because they solely use the Apple website as their price guide.

However you're right that, ultimately, it's a bit of a futile path to go down after a certain point (which has certainly been reached in this case )

My main concern for Logic, FWIW, is that it doesn't introduce a subscription only model come version 11 on Mac OS. If they did this my concern is many other companies would see it as a green light to move in the same direction.. (Not that some aren't trying already)

Given the path Apple have taken, on iOS, it goes a bit beyond speculation at this point, and I think it would put many off desktop Logic. Or maybe the opposite would be true?

[machinesworking]

Please move this whole discussion elsewhere and don't f**k this thread up with your Pc vs Mac stuff. I really appreciate to read about users here actually talk about Logic Pro.

The whole thing about Logic is it requires a Mac, which is when talk is introduced about pricing (which isn't actually a Mac VS PC thing, but about what you can afford VS what you can't). I thought it important to point out that a lot of the pricing claims some make are just plain wrong, because they solely use the Apple website as their price guide.

However you're right that, ultimately, it's a bit of a futile path to go down after a certain point (which has certainly been reached in this case )

My main concern for Logic, FWIW, is that it doesn't introduce a subscription only model come version 11 on Mac OS. If they did this my concern is many other companies would see it as a green light to move in the same direction.. (Not that some aren't trying already)

Given the path Apple have taken, on iOS, it goes a bit beyond speculation at this point, and I think it would put many off desktop Logic. Or maybe the opposite would be true?

It's completely futile, you do not see Mac people in Cakewalk threads huffing and puffing. The whole argument that it's not just old geezers wanting platform wars falls flat when you take that into consideration. In no uncertain terms the malice does not run both ways.

They will not do a subscription desktop Logic, like people love mentioning the computer is the subscription, and 7 years later you will need a new one to run the latest version of Logic.

[PAK]

They will not do a subscription desktop Logic, like people love mentioning the computer is the subscription, and 7 years later you will need a new one to run the latest version of Logic.

The problem I see, with this argument, is couldn't you argue the exact same thing (if not more so) about needing a new iPad after 7 years too?

Whilst the margin may be higher on the computer, neither are what's making Apple most of their money. Q1 2024 earnings show "Services" (19.3%) now earn them more than their computers (6.5%) and tablets (5.9%) combined. Whilst there are differences between the desktop and iOS market, services are an increasingly important piority for Apple and how they make money.

Given this, is the computer really "the subscription" in the same way that it used to be? I would say it's not. So I'm not so sure whether they'll pass on the opportunity to make the next version available as a service on the desktop, just as they have when a new version presented itself on iPad.

The one big argument, against this, is they must surely be aware that would not please a significant percentage of their desktop users, and perhaps this would be enough to dissuade them from, if not going that path, at least not making subscriptions the exclusive way to use the product? It's going to be interesting to see where they go, and I hope you're right that they'll stick with the present way of doing things for the desktop..

[Bombadil]

Is this the 5 minute argument, or the whole half hour?