KVR Audio

3ee · Post by **3ee** » Sat Feb 01, 2014 7:15 am

Sub 37: I'm a bit worried about those buttons... they seem a bit like malfunctioning after a few years of use.

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:32 am

I wouldn't bet on that, since it's Moog quality after all.

ZenPunkHippy · Post by **ZenPunkHippy** » Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:44 am

Agree with EvilDragon - I think the quality of the buttons will be fine.

I was skeptical about this synth when first announced but watching the NAMM demos with Amos: wow, very impressive feature list and sound.

If they manage to keep it under $1500 it will be extremely difficult to ignore the GAS.

Peace,
Andy.

werp · Post by **werp** » Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:51 am

ZenPunkHippy wrote:Agree with EvilDragon - I think the quality of the buttons will be fine.

I was skeptical about this synth when first announced but watching the NAMM demos with Amos: wow, very impressive feature list and sound.

If they manage to keep it under $1500 it will be extremely difficult to ignore the GAS.

Peace,
Andy.

Unfortunately for us, the AUD isn't terribly spectacular right now. I expect it to be 2500 by the time it lands here. The sub phatty is over 1100 again.

werp · Post by **werp** » Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:53 am

3ee wrote:Sub 37: I'm a bit worried about those buttons... they seem a bit like malfunctioning after a few years of use.

My little phatty is solid as a rock. Moog has a reputation to uphold, I don't foresee any quality control issues.

spacecult · Post by **spacecult** » Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:38 pm

Yeah, best moog knock is just the old 'i don't like the sound'. They ain't pocketing logo profits until they bought nice components and engineered them well. They simply cannot afford to do so, anyway.

aciddose · Post by **aciddose** » Sat Feb 01, 2014 9:39 pm

If you're really concerned about something like that, get the parts list and check availability of those parts. Read the datasheets.

If the manufacturer says 50,000 cycles you can be pretty sure it'll approximate that.

If you find strange components that are difficult to source in the same format and unlikely to be available ten years down the road, then you have some genuine concerns.

3ee · Post by **3ee** » Sat Feb 01, 2014 9:47 pm

I'm not questioning the Moog quality build of course, I was just wondering about .. why did they chose those type of buttons and didn't go for for traditional ones that have a long-lasting reputation.
...and ultimately, I don't have a clue how good they really are, I'm judging by the look of them getting pressed within Namm videos atm

... they seem to get pressed too easily and are stiff.

3ee · Post by **3ee** » Sat Feb 01, 2014 10:05 pm

An idea about the filter pole...

OK, excuse me if this may be stupid

as I don't know much about electronics but, would it be possible to select all poles at once somehow for yet another different character? ..somewhat like the 1176 compressor trick of having all the ratio buttons pressed.

And about the envelope decay shape.... would it be possible to modify the shape with an under-the-hood option?

Sequent · Post by **Sequent** » Sat Feb 01, 2014 10:22 pm

As for under the hood, NOW is the time to be asking for those kinds of things while they're still finalizing those details. From what I've seen they are VERY open to user input and I get the feeling that if it's something that can be done it very well might be done. I'm thinking that now is probably a good time to sign up at the user forums if you aren't there already. I'm considering doing it as well.

spacecult · Post by **spacecult** » Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:09 pm

3ee wrote:I'm not questioning the Moog quality build of course, I was just wondering about .. why did they chose those type of buttons and didn't go for for traditional ones that have a long-lasting reputation.
...and ultimately, I don't have a clue how good they really are, I'm judging by the look of them getting pressed within Namm videos atm ... they seem to get pressed too easily and are stiff.

Well, I don't know either. They could be some junk for all I know. But the 'buttons' are just custom made pieces of plastic that depress switches. I don't know how to determine what switch was used by looking at the panel on a video. Better to be safe than sorry, though, I suppose?

aciddose · Post by **aciddose** » Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:43 pm

3ee wrote:An idea about the filter pole...

OK, excuse me if this may be stupid as I don't know much about electronics but, would it be possible to select all poles at once somehow for yet another different character? ..somewhat like the 1176 compressor trick of having all the ratio buttons pressed.

And about the envelope decay shape.... would it be possible to modify the shape with an under-the-hood option?

Basically, no and no.

You'll get phase cancellation from combining filter poles. Yes, this does create different responses and in fact this is how different filters are built in the first place! What you'll end up with however will be a lot less usable in music. What we tend to prefer is a single well defined peak and what you'll get will be a lot more complex, which doesn't easily translate to "usable".

If you're interested in messing with this sort of stuff it would be a lot easier to do with a modular. You can also try it in software, although you'll need to use specific filter types to get responses like you'd get from a modular. Try messing with the so-called "zero delay" structures for example and combine those as desired.

Envelope decay shape - you can easily adjust the asymptote of the curve, but beyond that no. In the circuit used by moog this is not easy to do either, although other circuits capable of real-time asymptote adjustment (with time adjusted automatically) do exist. Those are usually VC and very complex compared to the plain old ADSR, or ADSD-minimoog style envelope.

3ee · Post by **3ee** » Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:07 am

OK, thanks for the explanation.
Although I will probably suggest to them in a way or another... they may have ideas at least on what people interests are and could lead to cool implementations!

So far, this seems like the perfect synth for me!

spacecult · Post by **spacecult** » Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:30 am

aciddose wrote: Envelope decay shape - you can easily adjust the asymptote of the curve, but beyond that no. In the circuit used by moog this is not easy to do either, although other circuits capable of real-time asymptote adjustment (with time adjusted automatically) do exist. Those are usually VC and very complex compared to the plain old ADSR, or ADSD-minimoog style envelope.

As far as the subphatty envelopes go (assuming the sub37 is the same), there is a 'fast decay' mode. Also a hold time, which can be used to influence the decay 'feel' of your patches. And note that with negative modulation while using envelope attack to create decay, you get another variation. So, it is more flexible than it seems although certainly not infinitely adjustable.

(Rather certain these are actually software envelopes, though, so who knows what is possible...)

werp · Post by **werp** » Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:56 am

One of my suppliers is advertising the Sub 37. A shade under 2K AUD. in stock May 30.
Tempting, I thought it'd be more like 2500 here.

2x New Moog Hardware - 'Sub37' and 'Theremini'