Should Bitwig take Ableton 11 as an example?

[nortle]

I just can say it again: Let's stay on topic. And maybe its cool, if the same 2 or 3 people don't dominate the whole thread.

[mholloway]

When did half the population of the planet just wholesale forget what an Opinion is? JFC.

"97% of Bitwig's users never release anything substantial and only tinker around making obscure sounds."

That is not an "opinion," plain and simple. It's an incorrect, baseless assertion of a presumed Fact.

For the writer of that drivel to defend himself saying "it's an opinion" reveals he cannot hold an argument, does not understand the difference between Opinions vs. Statements of Facts (whether true or false), and lacks the essentials of basic critical thinking skills.

"Bitwig is the best DAW ever" -- Opinion.

"Ohio only has 200 people living in it." -- baseless assertion of an (incorrect) Fact.

"97% of Bitwig Users never complete anything." -- baseless assertion of a Fact, and quite likely a wildly incorrect one. With no evidence presented to back up the assertion, though, we can't really assess its veracity. What we can know, however, is that this statement is not an Opinion.

It's seriously depressing that people are struggling with this. It gives me shell-shock, thanks to the last four years here in the USA, ugh.

[Teezdalien]

I’m a user as you are. Make room for others to disagree.
End of story.

You don’t agree and you telling me End of Story as to shut up?

[liquidsound]

I’m a user as you are. Make room for others to disagree.
End of story.

You don’t agree and you telling me End of Story as to shut up?

you didn’t get it?

[andypryce]

I might make some angry but, with each update to Bitwig I wish more that it were a plugin so I could use it in Logic just like Reason Amazing stuff for sound design and synthesis but somehow I can not take it for a standalone DAW. It does not give me that feeling and it is most likely me but that is the way it is. Does not feel the same with Ableton. It feels like a DAW with great sound design capabilities. Bitwig feels like a dream sound design platform with some DAW features attached to it. Of course The Grid and all new modulation features being the focus since V3 has a big impact on my view of it.

[JHernandez]

eh, why not

[mholloway]

Bitwig feels like a dream sound design platform with some DAW features attached to it. Of course The Grid and all new modulation features being the focus since V3 has a big impact on my view of it.

Shrug. All this tells me is that you've spent very little time using or exploring Bitwig, let alone writing music with it.

[andypryce]

Bitwig feels like a dream sound design platform with some DAW features attached to it. Of course The Grid and all new modulation features being the focus since V3 has a big impact on my view of it.

Shrug. All this tells me is that you've spent very little time using or exploring Bitwig, let alone writing music with it.

Finished a full song when it was on V2 despite all the slow GUI problems on Mac and really liked it but I kind of drifted away with V3 and all the Grid stuff with it. I still keep it current though and check from time to time.

[Noumena]

That stuff is just social conditioning making people feel guilty for not being commercially productive.

came here to say this. also, 'releasing' something means what these days? I have like 200 tracks on soundcloud and 100 on streaming services... with a few thousand listens. Is that really better than if I hadn't posted anything? is it really worse than if I'd got on a label and had a "release?" It's true... it is all capitalism.

True story: my daughter is on spotify singing on a song with 200 million+ listens and yet she doesn't care at all about DAWs and can't be bothered to even use Garageband. If it was about releases my guess would be that everyone on this thread put together should do what she does and just sing and play guitar into the Voice Recorder app on her phone.

Now: Live 11 is fine. It is nice. I don't like the modulation model, I don't like that there is not an fx slot in the delay's feedback look, I don't like that there isn't a grid, I don't like most of the built in instruments, I don't like how expensive it is and I don't like how Ableton made me hack together my own MPE solutions for three years. I don't like how there isn't a generic flexi script and I don't like how fragmented M4L and the api has made all the 3rd party solutions to the myriad things that the DAW doesn't do. And. Most of all. Despite the fact that I build stuff in Max before there was MSP and Max/MSP for a decade and M4L for years. I don't. like. Max, MSP or M4L. It's a pain in the ass and for me the worst creativity killer of all time. The way BW does everything that I'd like to do is so refreshing, and the way that I just can't do the things that they haven't put into the program yet and there's nothing I can do about it is liberating. I'm not defending the limits... no. I'm singing the praises of a coherent platform that isn't fiddly like that. I *can* fiddle, but it is in the grid or with modulators, which is much nicer than going deep on my M4L patch that worked last time but doesn't work now. I'm so happy to be done with all that. And THAT is the thing I appreciate most about BW. They are not half assing it.

[SpaceCadetOnLeave]

Oh you silly people! Stop this social conditioning attempt, right now!
Excuses, excuses.
Yes, an upload is not a release. A release is a statement. There is nothing compared holding a freshly pressed vinyl(/cd) and the new artwork in your hands for the first time, even if it is for the 15th time. It's a great feeling that there are people who belief in your music, enough to put money and energy into a beautiful crafted project, along side other beautiful projects from other composers/musicians.
And the feeling when the release is sold out is even better. Not only because of the capitalism (barely interesting in this business) but it proves you made something people care about.
IMO it's all about *creation* not about having all the possibilities you can imagine, (and talking about it) which seems to be the main focus of the BS devs. "The other" DAWs (even Live) seem to listen more to what a musician wants and present things a musician may need.
BS seems to target boring technicians who just want to talk about modulation, routing, wave folding and nyquist, and apparently never finish or save anything.

[UltraByte]

strange how option 1 was leading for days and than suddenly option 3 was pushed. an admin should check if these were all new accounts.

[nortle]

strange how option 1 was leading for days and than suddenly option 3 was pushed. an admin should check if these were all new accounts.

Which option do you mean? The ratios have not changed significantly over the days, only the number of votes.

[pdxindy]

strange how option 1 was leading for days and than suddenly option 3 was pushed. an admin should check if these were all new accounts.

Which option do you mean? The ratios have not changed significantly over the days, only the number of votes.

Yeah, the "Damn Yes" option has been around 30% for days...

[backtomusic]

strange how option 1 was leading for days and than suddenly option 3 was pushed. an admin should check if these were all new accounts.

Which option do you mean? The ratios have not changed significantly over the days, only the number of votes.

Yeah, the "Damn Yes" option has been around 30% for days...

Maybee it acrually won by a large margin but option 3 stole the most votes by utilizing suspended users.... Wait that sound familiar

[ChrisDW]

Maybee it acrually won by a large margin but option 3 stole the most votes by utilizing suspended users.... Wait that sound familiar

The Bitwig forum has felt rather different with the absence of suspended users