question about zero latency monitoring

[lharless]

ok,

i've finally got to the point that i understand zero latency monitoring. wow! was i stupid or what? it's tremendously easy. anyway...

well, i recorded a couple tracks and now i am getting a slight delay in playback from the second track recorded. as if the second track is dragging behind a little bit. very minutely. how do i correct for this?

im trying to set this up for my us-122 at the moment. and i also have an onyx 1640 that im going to be using. i will have to be able to change these on the fly. what am i going to have to do to be able to get rid of the slight dragging behind of the recorded audio? and how difficult will it be to do this for both interfaces, and still be able to switch back and forth between the two?

ill use the onyx for more than two tracks at once, and the us-122 for overdubs and stereo micing situations.

if im not being clear enough to help YOU help ME, please advise.

Summary: us-122, and an onyx 1640. need to be able to use both. experiencing a "dragging-behind" in playback with recorded audio on the second track and so on. need fix. need to be able to switch between the two. best way to do this and be able to use both at different times.

how do you set the offset or whatever so that it wont drag behind?

on the us-122, im hooking the headphone jack out into the line/guitar input, with the line/guitar input volume halfway up, and the headphone volume halfway up.

it gave me a reading of like 147.31ms. does that sound right? what am i missing here? whats't he proper way to correct for this?

thanks,

lee

[lharless]

by the way. i have been using cubase and am only now getting around to trying to convert the studio over to tracktion. now that i got the waves plugs issues sorted, im on to other things.

now to get this sorted. hopefully this one will be easy.

[lharless]

ok. heres the scoop so far.

the first time i tried it, i got a weird "dragging-behind" of the second recorded track that i laid down.

this time, i uninstalled tracktion, reinstalled it, redid all of the plugins, got that straight, and decided to try a drum machine (hardware) as my first instrument. recorded the first test track, a little blurb of a minute or so. then recorded bass. the "dragging-behind" was not present this time. i don't know what the heck i did.

so... i guess the real question is: what should my settings on the recording screen look like for recording and overdubbing? i always use zero latency monitoring on the tracks that i am recording. i have stopped using amp sims and started tracking with mics or line in through hardware amp sims.

i have unticked the e2e on each track (actually the default setting, so nothing touched), and left the overal e2e enabled. assign an input to arm a track, then record, and so on and so on. it seems fine now. but i want to know what i may be missing. i've consulted the manual, and it really doesnt get in depth about recording audio.

am i doing everything ok? do i need to compensate or any delay related to the settings on my interface driver? im using the us-122 and it's set, i believe at either 512 or 1024 latency. do i need to do anything to compensate for the settings on the us-122 drivers?

also, when i want to switch over to my onyx.. am i going to have to change anything other than my latency settings? and if im using zero latency monitoring, and latency is not an issue, is that going to throw off the audio when i play it back in any way, on either of the interfaces?

[xing]

If you select your input, then you should see a setting in the bottom to adjust the latency of that input. There is also a loopback test where you connect the input to the output and have tracktion try to figure out the delay. This should get you in the ballpark.

I don't think that tracktion accounts for pdc when using zero latency monitoring. So, if you add effects to some of the tracks that require compensation, you'll have to readjust the input delays accordingly. That may be what happened when you noticed the lag.

[lharless]

nah, i didn't have any effects running at the time. it was a new edit.

is it ok to use a little 1/4" mono cable from the headphones out, to an input to test fo the latency?

and what is pdc? im confused now.

[xing]

The headphone cable should work fine. You should turn off the zero latency monitoring and turn down any speakers before doing the loopback just in case there is some feedback.

pdc adjusts the timing of your tracks to compensate for effects that have a processing delay like SIR reverb. Tracktion will delay all the tracks except the ones going through the effect by the amount that the effect delays the audio so that everything lines up at the output.

With normal monitoring, if you play through an effect that requires pdc, you have to play the instrument a little bit early to adjust for the delay, and if the effect adds a lot of delay like SIR, you won't be able to do it.

With zero-latency monitoring, you'll hear what you play instantly, so you can play along with a mix. But if the whole mix had a pdc delay because of one of your effects, when you go back to play it, you'll probably have to move your recording to get it to line up with the original tracks.

It's easiest to wait to add effects until all your tracks are recorded, then you won't have to worry about it.

[lharless]

...so normally, there shouldn't be any delay upon playback of uneffected tracks?

if i record with zero latency monitoring, and odn't add any filters, and just record the first track, then the second, and so on.. there should not be any "drag-behind" on the second track and so forth, unless i add an effect that causes pdc delay?

it's ,seemingly, working fine now regardless. i just wonder if any of my waves plugs will introduce pdc delay.

should i still do the delay compensation even though i don't use those kinds of plugs? even if all i do is record track to track and no plugs? i think i understand what the deal is, but i just want to get it really clear.

beno, or any of the other heavys, can you guys comment on this please? once i get this sorted out, ill be golden. this is the only thing standing in my way of getting rid of cubase and finishing the conversion to T2.

as long as im going to be able to do 16 channels live at once, and then do overdubs and the like, then im good to go. then if the waves plugs introduce delay in the audio, ill have to learn to compensate for the delay.

just wish i was a little more clear on the way everybody else does it.

--

so turn off zero latency monitoring, use the headphone out into the input and run the test.

do i have to enter it into every channel everytime i use the program? or does it remember the setting and put it on every channel? or does it have to be on every channel? sorry, im not the brightest person in the world about all these settings. i know how to USE the software, but im not a "software tech" kind of person. im 34, used to hardware and am only recently making the jump to computer recording. please have patience with me.

thanks

[mandolarian]

Uh, there could be a problem between the Onyx and USB-122 if you are recording thru both simultaneously. And playback thru both could suffer latency, clocking and other sync issues.

Disregard the above if you're using only one OR the other.

The dragging on the 2nd track you heard, can you see it too?

T should remember each device's input e-2-e settings. Should be a set 'n forget situation. If you're using direct sound card monitoring and e-2-e off, you won't hear the input channel thru your Waves plugs until you playback.

Of course, I could just be retarted. But I haven't even had one tart today!

[lharless]

my onyx has 18 inputs, the us-122 has two andis very very portable. i use the onyx for recording many many tracks at once, then i use the us-122 for overdubs and such.. only to save from having to lug around a huge mixer. so it would be one or the other..

what does that change?

so T should remember settings from one device to the other. i guess all that's left is to try it. can i keep you on hold until i try it and see if it works? haha!

thanks man!

[mandolarian]

Sure...I'll sit here at stare at the pretty pixels. No hurry....La-dee-da.

[valley]

Sure...I'll sit here at stare at the pretty pixels. No hurry....La-dee-da.

are they called 550?

[will.record.for.food]

Ive ran into the same problem (lag in monitoring).

Check to see if the e-to-e is disabled on THE INPUT, not just the main controls.

This was causing me a very noticable delay on stuff like acoustic guitars...erm...and eveything else

[lharless]

--edited-- i posted something irrelevant ---edit---

i really need to stop talking about smoking pot. i could get myself into trouble. i'll say anything while im on pain killers man...

i had dental surgery this week. god i love lortabs.

[Lunch Money]

I had a huge convoluted answer typed, but then I realized that sometimes there's such thing as "too much information", so let's take it in baby steps.

My contribution will be this:

1. Whether you monitor directly or not does NOT impact the fact that your audio is being offset incorreclty and you're experiencing 'lag'. When you directly monitor, you're basically taking your signal (let's say it's a guitar), and you're 'splitting' it so that half of it is going to Tracktion and the other half is going directly to, say, an amplifier and cabs. Tracktion doesn't even know that it's been 'split', it just cares about the signal it's receiving at the driver-level 'input device' of the sound card. This would be the exact same signal whether you're using direct monitoring or not. Cut the cable that goes to the amplifier and cabs and you're not effecting the signal that's making its way to the soundcard and Tracktion at all.

2. The US-122 and the Onyx will each operate independently and separately, so once you've got their settings correct, you SHOULD be able to switch between them without further headache. If it ends up that you CAN'T, it's not your fault but the fault of Tracktion OR one (or both) of the sound card manufacturers. If every component works the way it's been designed to work, YOU as a user should be able to switch between them with just a click. If you can't, it's not your fault and it's got nothing to do with your lack of software expertise.

3. It seems to me that your soundcard is not reporting its latency correctly, and this is probably the problem. Here's what happens when you press 'record':

- Tracktion delays playback by the amount of the PDC that's been reported and then it's also delayed 'naturally' by the sound card's latency
- You record your part
- Tracktion 'shifts' the recorded part to the right spot by shifting it by the amount of PDC time PLUS the amount of soundcard latency.

If both of those things (PDC and soundcard latency) are being reported correctly, you should have everything exactly in time. It COULD be a PDC issue (I don't know how your Waves plug-ins operate, but they seem to be a continuous headache!) but I think it's more likely to be a soundcard issue. Try running the loopback test mentioned earlier in the thread and see if the reported latency is in the same ballpark as what your audio device's "control panel" is telling you your latency is set at.

Of course, the other potential culprit is Tracktion itself, not "shifting back" the recorded audio by the correct amount. In any case, there are forces at work here that don't seem to be completely your fault. Despite your assertion, I suspect that you don't quite grasp direct monitoring yet; however, everything else you posted leads me to believe that you've done everything an end-user would be expected to do. I could be wrong, but that's the impression I get.

----


Now, I think about a lot of these things in "layman's terms" (or at least, I try to explain them that way), so they may not be completely textbook-accurate. If anybody cares to correct anything I've said, by all means do so! But try to help Lee while you're at it.

Greg

[djsubject]

i really need to stop talking about smoking pot.

email me a spliff plz


i dont smoke honest

yea right, beleave that & you will beleave anything