i am not sure if it has come up here but some places i talk about Tracktion the guys tell me that they really wish that they could have a mixer (other than the one on each track) like cool edit used to have and cubase i think sonar and so on. the more mixing i do the more i wish that one was made for this. i know that Tracktion is a one window program and i love that fact but a good mixing GUI would go a long ways.
something with some faders and then the pan control not on the same button?
FR: mixer panel
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- KVRist
- 155 posts since 4 Apr, 2005
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- KVRian
- 1112 posts since 17 Jul, 2003 from Kauai, HI
Welcome to KVR, GJ. The mixer issue has raised a lot of emotions here in the past. I think it was decided that there is a secret government entity involved, in partnership with an ancient society dedicated to protecting the mystical formulas used by...you get the idea. Tracktion + mixer = Never gonna happen.
Tom
Tom
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- KVRAF
- 3364 posts since 16 Feb, 2004 from atop a katamari
i'm a strong advocate of the "there's absolutely no need to have a mixer" view. i see that many people feel that they need a mixer, but use of tracktion over the last couple of years has shown this to simply not be the case. it just doesn't fit with Tracktion's way of working, and it would only make things weird.
that said, if there WERE to be a mixer, i think the best way would be something like this...
because of the modular way the vol/pan filters work (you can plonk as many as you like onto a track), it would be very odd indeed to have it relate to those; how would you know which would be on a mixer? they shouldn't ALL be there, as some would just be utility modules for extra control. some would say that maybe the right-most fader could be used as a mixer fader, but that's going to be confusing in the large...
however, there could perhaps be an additional mode on the vol/pan properties panel, a button labelled "show in mixer panel".
When you create a new edit, or a new track, the vol/pan filters already on the track default to this mixer-enabled mode, but adding a vol/pan filter would have this disabled.
With this setting enabled, the filter controls would appear on a separate popup mixer panel as a channel strip. this would show a strip for each of the filters with this setting enabled in an edit, and the controls there would change the settings of the corresponding filter, and thus the track level/pan. an extra button near the transport/master controls would pop up the mixer panel, and give you access to the various strips. The mixer window would of course be scrollable.
if that were to happen, i wouldn't mind so much, as it'd be optional. if it doesn't, i still wouldn't care less, because it's entirely unnecessary and a very outdated outmoded way of thinking about things.
that said, if there WERE to be a mixer, i think the best way would be something like this...
because of the modular way the vol/pan filters work (you can plonk as many as you like onto a track), it would be very odd indeed to have it relate to those; how would you know which would be on a mixer? they shouldn't ALL be there, as some would just be utility modules for extra control. some would say that maybe the right-most fader could be used as a mixer fader, but that's going to be confusing in the large...
however, there could perhaps be an additional mode on the vol/pan properties panel, a button labelled "show in mixer panel".
When you create a new edit, or a new track, the vol/pan filters already on the track default to this mixer-enabled mode, but adding a vol/pan filter would have this disabled.
With this setting enabled, the filter controls would appear on a separate popup mixer panel as a channel strip. this would show a strip for each of the filters with this setting enabled in an edit, and the controls there would change the settings of the corresponding filter, and thus the track level/pan. an extra button near the transport/master controls would pop up the mixer panel, and give you access to the various strips. The mixer window would of course be scrollable.
if that were to happen, i wouldn't mind so much, as it'd be optional. if it doesn't, i still wouldn't care less, because it's entirely unnecessary and a very outdated outmoded way of thinking about things.
Kick, punch, it's all in the mind.
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- KVRAF
- 6740 posts since 25 Mar, 2002 from sheffield, england
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- KVRAF
- 3364 posts since 16 Feb, 2004 from atop a katamari
what i suggested is definitely possible with a plugin. rather than have one plugin you need to put in a rack and route your tracks to, you can just have a bunch of 'mixer linked' modules, which are basically vol/pan faders (with their own GUI too), whose parameters are controlled by a separate plugin, the mixer panel. a strip exists on the mixer for every instance of the mixer linked filters, and controlling the faders on the mixer plugin will adjust the parameters for the corresponding linked filter, thus adjusting the gain/whatever for that plugin.
this is fairly easy to do.
what is probably less straightforward is getting working level meters to show on the mixer panel. i'm sure that it's possible, but it'd likely be a bit more of a cpu drain
this is fairly easy to do.
what is probably less straightforward is getting working level meters to show on the mixer panel. i'm sure that it's possible, but it'd likely be a bit more of a cpu drain
Kick, punch, it's all in the mind.
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
I think you just need to try Tracktion a bit longer. By the time you've recorded and mixed down your first song, you will see that a mixer is needless clutter.
I know a certain element is used to mixing with a 'mixer', but each track in Tracktion is its own mixer channel. This includes sub-grouping. I can see some people's points that 100 tracks is tough to keep track of with the Tracktion way, but in my opinion if you're mixing 100 individual tracks like that, you're doing something wrong and it's time to sub-group anyhow. Just an opinion, though, because there's no actual "wrong" way of doing anything.
I don't see how any "mixer" view makes 100 tracks any easier unless its ALSO using a mixer view, anyhow. A few project scrolling and recall shortcut keys are all that Tracktion needs in order to do away with the concept of a mixer altogether.
Greg
I know a certain element is used to mixing with a 'mixer', but each track in Tracktion is its own mixer channel. This includes sub-grouping. I can see some people's points that 100 tracks is tough to keep track of with the Tracktion way, but in my opinion if you're mixing 100 individual tracks like that, you're doing something wrong and it's time to sub-group anyhow. Just an opinion, though, because there's no actual "wrong" way of doing anything.
I don't see how any "mixer" view makes 100 tracks any easier unless its ALSO using a mixer view, anyhow. A few project scrolling and recall shortcut keys are all that Tracktion needs in order to do away with the concept of a mixer altogether.
Greg
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- KVRist
- 127 posts since 28 Dec, 2004
About the m...r (I can't even say/type the word): The more mixing I do the more I thank God that one was NOT made for this. (Yes, I am mentally ill. 
)
Give it some time GJ. It's hard sometimes when we're so used to something to get used to it not being there.
The first time I opened T I was thrilled about "no more floating windows". I do use other apps for specific tasks ocassionally, but the bulk of my work is T all the way. It's so damn easy with T.
I do straight audio, and even the few loops I use I record myself, so almost everything I currently need is in T. The only FR I want currently is DX support native, (no wrapper). I have a few plugs necessary to my work that won't work with wrappers.
)Give it some time GJ. It's hard sometimes when we're so used to something to get used to it not being there.
The first time I opened T I was thrilled about "no more floating windows". I do use other apps for specific tasks ocassionally, but the bulk of my work is T all the way. It's so damn easy with T.
I do straight audio, and even the few loops I use I record myself, so almost everything I currently need is in T. The only FR I want currently is DX support native, (no wrapper). I have a few plugs necessary to my work that won't work with wrappers.
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- KVRAF
- 4644 posts since 28 Nov, 2002 from Chicago
http://www.behringer.com/BCF2000/index.cfm?lang=ENGguitar junkie wrote: something with some faders and then the pan control not on the same button?
Likely cheaper for this and T2 than the cost of Cubase.
Someone shot the food. Remember: don't shoot food!
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- The Teach
- 8273 posts since 23 Jul, 2002 from flatness
no ... im not going to bite this time ...
... but how about (again) just a new option on the settings page of 'lock default vol/pan and level meter filter sizes' that keeps those two filters a standard size AS LONG AS they remain the last two filters in the signal chain on that track ???
slainte
rob
... but how about (again) just a new option on the settings page of 'lock default vol/pan and level meter filter sizes' that keeps those two filters a standard size AS LONG AS they remain the last two filters in the signal chain on that track ???
slainte
rob-
- KVRAF
- 4908 posts since 10 Aug, 2004 from Colorado Springs
Greg is absolutely spot-on with this. This aspect of Tracktion is what bends your mind in a fresh and new way - it's a lead in to understanding the modular signal flow of Tracktion, whether in MIDI or audio.Lunch Money wrote:I think you just need to try Tracktion a bit longer. By the time you've recorded and mixed down your first song, you will see that a mixer is needless clutter.
I know a certain element is used to mixing with a 'mixer', but each track in Tracktion is its own mixer channel. This includes sub-grouping. I can see some people's points that 100 tracks is tough to keep track of with the Tracktion way, but in my opinion if you're mixing 100 individual tracks like that, you're doing something wrong and it's time to sub-group anyhow. Just an opinion, though, because there's no actual "wrong" way of doing anything.
I don't see how any "mixer" view makes 100 tracks any easier unless its ALSO using a mixer view, anyhow. A few project scrolling and recall shortcut keys are all that Tracktion needs in order to do away with the concept of a mixer altogether.
Greg
Once you realize that Tracktion allows you to basically patch just about any track to any other track or clip together in traditional and weird and wonderful ways, you soon realize that the mixer paradigm is passé.
Try what Greg says. Chuck filters in and route audio to other tracks for mangling in other filters, mix a song. You'll forget about the mixer paradigm soon enough.
-Scott
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 155 posts since 4 Apr, 2005
i have used tracktion for about 5 months now and mind you i use it EVERY DAY! and i am pretty used to it and rather happy with just using the little hicky for volume although i really do wish that is was not tied in with the panning as i use a mouse and not a universal control or something when i use a mouse its hard to just adjust a fader and keep from panning something and so i have to open the larger view and work from there and that is a time waster. i mixed a CD for a client already and it was something that i recorded of them live at a show on my G5 at 8 tracks and then mixed it after that, i was kind of tired of the way i had to set levels. just really if not a mixer then maybe another way to pan things around?
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
I can understand that it's a bit fiddly when the filter gets smallish. When it's REALLY annoying me, I just do one of 2 things:
1. Expand the filter area. Gives me less 'track' space, but if I'm mixing I'm listening rather than looking anyhow, and it only takes a second to make it bigger or smaller again.
2. Set my vol and pan filter to default, and render the track. With larger projects, I OFTEN make track renders anyhow.
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That said, except for the small size of the filter, you cannot accidentally pan something when you're setting volume. Instead of looking at the filter, just look at your cursor. It'll either be up/down or left/right arrows, so it's tricky to mess up.
OR
Use the pan/volume sliders that appear in the properties panel when a filter is picked.
Greg
1. Expand the filter area. Gives me less 'track' space, but if I'm mixing I'm listening rather than looking anyhow, and it only takes a second to make it bigger or smaller again.
2. Set my vol and pan filter to default, and render the track. With larger projects, I OFTEN make track renders anyhow.
--
That said, except for the small size of the filter, you cannot accidentally pan something when you're setting volume. Instead of looking at the filter, just look at your cursor. It'll either be up/down or left/right arrows, so it's tricky to mess up.
OR
Use the pan/volume sliders that appear in the properties panel when a filter is picked.
Greg
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- KVRAF
- 6740 posts since 25 Mar, 2002 from sheffield, england
Thats what I do. For anything but rough mixing I tend to type in parameter values directly..Lunch Money wrote:
Use the pan/volume sliders that appear in the properties panel when a filter is picked.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 155 posts since 4 Apr, 2005
so my only hope is that i get some kind of mixer hardware then. 
I Don't own a PC!
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- KVRAF
- 4644 posts since 28 Nov, 2002 from Chicago
or use alternate vol pan plugs.
you could knock something together in sythedit in about 5 mins, given that all you need are two plugs, one for level and the other for pan.
you could knock something together in sythedit in about 5 mins, given that all you need are two plugs, one for level and the other for pan.
Someone shot the food. Remember: don't shoot food!