Yet another UniWire question! :)

[CrownRoyal]

Okay, this is going to be a loaded question. It's about the iLok and UniWire. Will the UniWire protocol allow the use of only one iLok to manage the licenses on multiple Receptors? Or will we be required to have a iLok for each? If you're going to distribute VST load across multi Receptors, I can see a potential mess. I think (correct me if I'm wrong) that Apple's distributed node processing only requires a key to be inserted into the host. I think what is going to happen is you're going to get into trouble when people want to run multiple versions of a single VST. Do you follow me?

Example:

I open Logic and I want to run 5 tracks of VST_that_requires_iLok. I can do that on one computer with a single license but I want to offload it to my Receptor (that's what it's for, right?) because my host can't run it in real time. To spread the load, I load one VST_that_requires_iLok on each of my 5 Receptors. But wait! One of the Receptors has a "cross-graded license" and loads up. The other 4 Receptors look at their iLoks and find no license.... so I'm done. I only have one license. So, the "distribution" is limited by how many licenses I have! That's not true in Logic Pro. Not from what I've seen so far. The nodes share the processing done by the host. So, the host controls the licensing. Right? The nodes don't have XsKeys, right?

I'm not trying to be a jerk or promote Logic Pro. Okay? I know a fellow musician (Nancy) that has a system like I mentioned. She's actually in the film industry.

I was wondering if there's going to be some kind of license server? Like having the host handle the licenses? Or are we stuck with having an iLok for each?

Yes, yes, I know the comparing Logic Pro and Receptor UniWire is not the same thing EXCEPT when you start talking about distributed processing (it's actually not the same kind of distribution, either... I know) . I'll have to ask Nancy if she has XsKeys for each of her nodes. They might be on the back of her node computers but I didn't notice them.

Anyhow, I'm just curious about where this might lead. I can see a mess but I can also see myself buying more Apple nodes instead of more Receptors.

It would be very cool if a little iLok server ran on the host that said, "Okay, all you Receptors on this subnet can run VST_that_requires_iLok". Have a "Host mode" or a "Performance mode"?

Or maybe just put retina scanners in each Receptor?

I'm NOT trying to get around licensing. So, get that out of your head. I'm just saying that I'd purchase more nodes before Receptors IF I had to have a unique license for each Receptor. I think it would be cheaper and less hassle.

Okay, I'll shut up now.

[DanTimis]

I know you are an honest user, I know you are being punished for that, and I agree it is not fair. However, I would like to point out that the developers are not out to get you. It is the people who use pirated software that are sticking it to you.

You want to make great music, but in order to do that you need great tools. Developers, like everyone else, need to eat and have a roof over their head. Most of the developers I know could easily make more money by working in a more lucrative branch of the computer industry, but they choose to make a modest to decent living doing something they feel passionate about.

We are very passionate about what we are doing too, but our own survival depends on great plug-ins running on Receptor, which in turn depends on plug-in developers getting their fair share. We don't like to inconvenience the honest customers, but we have no choice. What I am about to say is a very, very crude comparison, but here it goes: I find it very inconvenient that I have to take off my shoes every time I fly, but on the other hand I am very grateful that I am alive at the end of the journey.

Again, I totally understand your frustration, and I know you are an honest user who does not deserve the extra aggravations brought by copy protection. After all, I am a developer, but I am also a user. I have to be very careful not to lose or even misplace my Cubase and Logic dongles; I spent hours trying to authorize DP on an external FireWire drive, only to find out that it works only from my internal drive, which is small and almost full, and so on.

The CPU sharing in Logic is technically different. The GUI and most of the logic of the plug-in runs on the main computer, only the processing core runs on a different computer. You don't even have to install the plug-in on the other computer, the code is sent over Ethernet, then it starts running. That is why you cannot run the sampler on a different Mac because it would require the installation of the entire plug-in including the sample libraries on the other computer. That is also why you cannot run just any AU plug-in, only the ones from Emagic (but not the sampler).

If you were a Windows user running FX Teleport, or if you were a Cubase user running VST system Link, or if you were to run Native Instruments plug-ins on several Macs and mix the audio outputs, you would need a separate license for each computer. UniWire works the same way. Moreover, with UniWire and the other similar systems described above, you run the plug-in completely on Receptor or the other computer, and you only send MIDI and audio over Ethernet or S/PDIF. This allows you to run any supported VST plug-in, not just the non-sampler ones from Emagic ones.

SampleTank and Amplitube do not use the iLok, so you need separate authorizations for each Receptor (or for each additional computer). I don't know what the IK's policy is, but NI gives you two authorizations, so you could authorize one computer and one Receptor, two Receptors, or two computers. What happens if you need three? Do you have to pay full price again, or can you get a discount? Every plug-in developer may have a different policy.

So far we did not run into any practical problems. People with a modest budget buy one Receptor, while the big bands like Garbage (6 Receptors), U2, Rolling Stones, Paul McCartney, Earth Wind and Fire, Ricky Matin, yes you read right, who has one Receptor for each member of his band, and so on, didn't blink an eye when they bought multiple licenses for every Receptor they own.

Now back to the practical details of iLok copy protection. It is extremely difficult to have an iLok server that lets you run several machines locally, but at the same time prevents computers or Receptors at far away locations to share the iLok. We discussed this issue with Pace, and they thought about it a lot, but there is no feasible solution.

I do have somewhat good news, though. After you instantiate an iLok protected plug-in on Receptor, you can take the iLok out and still run the plug-in. If you have several Receptors conveniently located close by, you can keep moving the iLok between Receptors as needed. Someone could even share one iLok between several Receptors located in different studios in the same building. A great way to lose weight, especially if stairs are involved.

This is actually our poor man's version of an iLok server. We did this on purpose. I don't know about Logic, I haven't tried to remove the dongle, but if I remove the Cubase dongle it will ask for it periodically. We could have done the same for Receptor, but we chose to allow people to share an iLok between several local Receptors. We thought that if you have to climb a flight of stairs or drive across town, that's enough of a deterrent.

This is another reason why we think that the iLok is a superior copy protection method compared to challenge/response. Other reasons are that if your hard disk crashes, or you upgrade your computer/buy a new one, you don't need to re-authorize everything, you can take your iLok in your pocket to a studio that does not own all of your plug-ins, it is much harder to krack, and so on.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

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[Angus_FX]

Note that, to the best of my knowledge, Logic Node does NOT yet work with third party plug-ins, and once they try, they'll run in to exactly the same kind of headaches -- after all, third party plug-ins do NOT derive their authorizations from the node-aware XSKey, but from the local machine hardware.

[CrownRoyal]

Note that, to the best of my knowledge, Logic Node does NOT yet work with third party plug-ins, and once they try, they'll run in to exactly the same kind of headaches -- after all, third party plug-ins do NOT derive their authorizations from the node-aware XSKey, but from the local machine hardware.

I talked to my friend, Nancy, and she says that she has any third party plug-ins on her laptop. When she does surround, reverbs, etc., she plugs into her network and lets the nodes handle all the effects stuff. It was cheaper than buying a TDM system.

You'll have to pardon my lack of knowledge about the license thing works. I don't know and so I'm just wondering aloud. I do apologize for wasting your time. I'm anxious to get my Receptor. I bet that once I have my hands on it, I'll quickly understand it.

And please understand that I'm in no way trying to undermine your efforts. I'm more curious than anything else.

My mind is boggled by what I think it can do. The more I read, the more I understand but it does pop up questions. I've been VERY disappointed by some hardware and software. At least when you buy a piece of hardware, you could sell it. Often times with software, you're stuck. It's like herpes. There's no recourse if the software is junk. The developer gets your money and you're stuck with junk. An example could be my problem with Absynth 3 and stuck notes. NI knows it's a problem and it's happening across platforms. They deny it's happening, though. So, I paid $300 for software that I can't trust? No, I will not PAY more to have that on my Receptor, too. Sorry, no deal. And I LOVE some of the license agreements! Some say right in them that they are not responsible if the software doesn't function. WHAT?!?!?! But they market the product as a performace instrument! Can you imagine selling a guitar to someone and saying, "well, we're not responsible if the pickups aren't wired" and you can't return it if it's defective. What a racket!

So, I pose questions, a lot.

I'll probably never buy another Receptor because I think one is going to do everything I need it to do. Or want it to do may be the better choice of words. But I had to ask about the license deal.

I purchased DP 4.5 from MOTU a few months ago to try out. I thought is was going to be great but it didn't fit my way of doing things. I didn't like it. I returned it and got my money back. I didn't copy the disks. I didn't pirate it. I returned it. You see, I'm not a crook. I understand that pirated software undermines our economies. I see people selling pirated software on eBay all the time and try to turn them in when possible. They should have a staff of people just policing that on eBay! It's sickening.

Anyhow, I'm not going to post anymore questions. I'm happy that I'm getting a Receptor. I'm just a little concerned about how my licenses transfer and all that.

Oh, BTW, Angus, I'm very happy with BFD. I'm still learning to use it but it's great. I dumped all my drum loops. BFD blows them all away. The control you have over the sets is remarkable. Keep the tutorials coming!

Thanks and best wishes to you all.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

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[Andreas]

The Receptor Team is usually very fast with answering questions, best support I´ve ever had any contact with, as a matter of fact (and I´ve had technical problems with all major brands the last 10 years ). This is a user forum though, but they also answer the phone if you have anything that has to be anwered at once.
I´m no uniwire expert, but it seems to me you can find your answers here:
http://www.museresearch.com/downloads/U ... _Paper.pdf
I don´t think you need a separate mouse/keyboard and it says in the paper that you can use Receptor effects on your audio tracks.

Andreas.

[CrownRoyal]

Thanks, as usual, receptor team, for your timely response to my difficult questions. NOT.

that's why i get angry. Do you WANT to sell me a receptor or do you just not give a shit?

Hey ttoz,

I actually talked to someone at Muse yesterday. No busy signals or being put on hold... just a friendly voice on the other end which was a pleasant surprise. I asked a few questions and then made a couple comments. The guy was really nice and wasn't trying to hustle me or anything. I think they do care... a lot. They run this forum, they run a business, they're at shows. Honestly, you need not to get agry, it's not worth it. Have you ever tried to get support for Logic by calling Apple? You have to pay for it. There's a grace period but after that, you pay. A lot of companies are doing it.

So, I know it's expensive to call L/D but it's worth talking to then directly. Don't get mad at them for not responding in here. Give them a call.

I think, after reading the white paper, I might be able to answer your questions. I think that when you open an AU in Logic, UniWire will open a window like the Remote app. From there you can setup that particular VST. I think that's why they're calling it a virtual-virtual instrument. That's my guess. As far as question two goes, I think that you indeed will be able to do what you're asking. Basically, you're using the Receptor as an insert effect, right?

The routing possibilities blows my mind, too.
I think it's worth the wait and I don't care how long they've been talking about. It will happen when it's done. We're all in the same boat. We can still make music without it and it's FREE to Receptor owners. Man, that's a hell of a deal. So, buy now and you'll get a great instrument, you'll offload your Mac (just like me) AND you'll get UniWire when it's done.

Sweet? I think so!

Take care, dude.

p.s. If you need any help with purchasing one, I'd be willing to lend you a hand. I'm getting mine from Sweetwater. Maybe I could help you save a few bucks or something? Or maybe I can test something for you when I get mine to help you out? Sounds like we have a similar setup.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

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[CrownRoyal]

it's ok, i decided against it when I saw the limited amount of plugins that actually work on it. Will reevaluate it once again a year from now, Thanks everyone for your help btw.

Limited? You're joking, right? It would be easier to list what it doesn't run.

Oh well, to each his/her own.

Best wishes.

[DanTimis]

Thanks, as usual, receptor team, for your timely response to my difficult questions. NOT.

that's why i get angry. Do you WANT to sell me a receptor or do you just not give a shit?

You posted your question at 1:47 AM, then at 4:15 AM you got angry because we did not answer?

Maybe if we outsourced our support to India you could get answers in the middle of the night.

Besides, this is a user forum. There is no guarantee that someone from Muse would answer. We do try to anwer ASAP, though. If you want customer support call us between 9 AM and 5 PM pacific time. As others have experienced, most of the time, someone will answer right away (no busy signals, no hold), and you will get answers to all your questions.

[DanTimis]

You'll have to pardon my lack of knowledge about the license thing works. I don't know and so I'm just wondering aloud. I do apologize for wasting your time. I'm anxious to get my Receptor. I bet that once I have my hands on it, I'll quickly understand it.

And please understand that I'm in no way trying to undermine your efforts. I'm more curious than anything else.

You don't have to appologize. We are here to help. All questions are welcome, no matter how difficult, or naive they are. If we don't know the answer, we'll just say so. If we have to clarify a misconception, we'll do it gladly. If there are disagreements, we like a good debate.

Anyhow, I'm not going to post anymore questions. I'm happy that I'm getting a Receptor. I'm just a little concerned about how my licenses transfer and all that.

Your questions are always welcome.

Oh, BTW, Angus, I'm very happy with BFD. I'm still learning to use it but it's great. I dumped all my drum loops. BFD blows them all away. The control you have over the sets is remarkable.

I couldn't agree more.

[Bryan@MuseResearch]

Thanks, as usual, receptor team, for your timely response to my difficult questions. NOT.

that's why i get angry. Do you WANT to sell me a receptor or do you just not give a shit?

Actually, we only sell Receptors to people who don't rage at us.

No seriously, if you really have an urgent question, like Dan said, give us a call or send it to info@museresearch.com and it will probably get a personalized answer within an hour or two.

We try, we really do, and we do want you to buy a Receptor, so keep those questions coming!

[ObsoleteAcc99]

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[DanTimis]

huh? Look at the timing again. it was 27 hours.

Sorry, anyway, didn't mean to be rude.

You are right. Sorry. I usually read this forum more than once a day, but somehow I missed your first post. When I saw your second post I assumed your first post was less than a day old, since normally I would have seen it.