attack hold decay possible with Z2 env?

[pdxindy]

Is it possible to do something like attack/hold/decay with the regular Z2 envelopes? I think not, but I thought I would ask.

I'll try using an MSEG to get the envelope shape I want. Would be nice to have hold on the regular envelopes... particularly for basses.

[pdxindy]

the MSEG works well... I got the sound I want

[loophead]

Sust = Sustain = Hold

So ignore Decay (set it to zero) so... Atack & Sust & Release

[ew]

Sust = Sustain = Hold

So ignore Decay (set it to zero) so... Atack & Sust & Release

Not so- the hold setting would be a time setting and NOT a level setting in a classic AHR routine. The attack would be the max level of the envelope, and the hold would specify how long it stays at that level before starting the release phase. Sustain is a level setting and not a time setting...

ew

[Urs]

Well, I had planned something like it as an additional mode for the init/delay parameter, but never had the time/power/moitivation to actually implement it. If it's really useful, I'll add it at some point.

Cheers,

Urs

[pdxindy]

Well, I had planned something like it as an additional mode for the init/delay parameter, but never had the time/power/moitivation to actually implement it. If it's really useful, I'll add it at some point.

Cheers,

Urs

I would say it is useful. Particularly for basses. Otherwise either with release or decay, the sound is too short of fades slowly (relatively). I played alot with the slope control and added a compressor but could not get what I wanted. A solid punchy sound that has a very short fade at the end, but is not too short and abrupt. As soon as I tried using the MSEG I could get that sound. Hold does something you just cannot do otherwise (unless you have a sweet Zebra2 MSEG )

That would be cool to have init/delay/hold -

[pdxindy]

Sust = Sustain = Hold

So ignore Decay (set it to zero) so... Atack & Sust & Release

Not so- the hold setting would be a time setting and NOT a level setting in a classic AHR routine. The attack would be the max level of the envelope, and the hold would specify how long it stays at that level before starting the release phase. Sustain is a level setting and not a time setting...

ew

ew said it well... Hold is its own unique control... I like it alot... particularly for bass and synth drums etc

[Urs]

One thing to consider... if you need 0 attack, just put the first parameter to "init", set it to 100 and then Attack becomes hold time...

Urs

[pdxindy]

One thing to consider... if you need 0 attack, just put the first parameter to "init", set it to 100 and then Attack becomes hold time...

Urs

I tried that... you get clicks that way. But in some circumstances it works soundwise

[Urs]

One thing to consider... if you need 0 attack, just put the first parameter to "init", set it to 100 and then Attack becomes hold time...

Urs

I tried that... you get clicks that way. But in some circumstances it works soundwise

Probably not so much with "Attack Smoothing" turned on in the final

Urs

[pdxindy]

One thing to consider... if you need 0 attack, just put the first parameter to "init", set it to 100 and then Attack becomes hold time...

Urs

I tried that... you get clicks that way. But in some circumstances it works soundwise

Probably not so much with "Attack Smoothing" turned on in the final

Urs

he he... I'm certainly looking forward to attack smoothing and all the other additions that are in your version!

Interesting when I was making attack/hold with the MSEG yesterday, how much subtle changes to the attack curve affects the sound. I learned a lot as I played with dragging the curve into different shapes without changing the attack time. So I am going to experiment more with the regular env slope controls. I do hope you add the env hold option in the future cause it is still nice to keep control of the attack shape.

Oh, when I was using the MSEG it did not work to put it on the voice mix mod depth1 with volume1 at 0. No sound at all. Is that a bug or am I not understanding how it works? I assume it would be like volume and volume mod on an osc.

[Urs]

Yeah, subtle changes to the slope can have big effects. I just learned that myself

Oh, when I was using the MSEG it did not work to put it on the voice mix mod depth1 with volume1 at 0. No sound at all. Is that a bug or am I not understanding how it works? I assume it would be like volume and volume mod on an osc.

That's a problem of the way the vca stage works, or - better - how the voice management works. Unlike all other modulations, the vca modulation does not *add* to the state, it rather multiplies, much like the "via" controls in the mod matrix.

As much as I'd love to, I can't change this without hassle or without making Z2 a permanent cpu hog.

The best way for complex volume modulation is always at the source of the signal, i.e. OSC or FMO, if possible. Because that way any period of silence leads to less cpu consumption as mute modules go into standby. (Does not - yet - work for Combs unfortunately)

Later,

Urs

[pdxindy]

Yeah, subtle changes to the slope can have big effects. I just learned that myself

Oh, when I was using the MSEG it did not work to put it on the voice mix mod depth1 with volume1 at 0. No sound at all. Is that a bug or am I not understanding how it works? I assume it would be like volume and volume mod on an osc.

That's a problem of the way the vca stage works, or - better - how the voice management works. Unlike all other modulations, the vca modulation does not *add* to the state, it rather multiplies, much like the "via" controls in the mod matrix.

As much as I'd love to, I can't change this without hassle or without making Z2 a permanent cpu hog.

The best way for complex volume modulation is always at the source of the signal, i.e. OSC or FMO, if possible. Because that way any period of silence leads to less cpu consumption as mute modules go into standby. (Does not - yet - work for Combs unfortunately)

Later,

Urs

It adds in the mod matrix... I set volume1 to 0 and then set volume1 as the target in the mod matrix and can use the modwheel (for example) to change the volume from 0 to whatever. So that is easy enough, and modulating each osc volume is easy enough too for better cpu

[Urs]

It adds in the mod matrix...

Oh...

But that means also that if the envelope is finished, the note/voice will still stop playing...

...hmmm... thinking more about it, the effect of ModMatrix must be pretty similar to direct modulation. Just the ModMatrix sounds louder...

hmmm

Urs