I did some searching and found little tidbits here and there, but nothing that directly addresses this issue.
I've been working with my receptor in a live situation for a few weeks now, and am finding Ivory is just not usable. While I've had no problem creating a scaled down 4-layer patch (based on the German D) that doesn't spike the Receptor while running at 128 buffer alongside B4II, the problem is that while it sounds fine at home through my studio monitors, it just sounds awful through club/rehearsal PA systems. I'm not sure if this is due perhaps to Ivory's samples not working well in Mono or what, but I'm looking for suggestions from any of you who perhaps have already gone through this process. Has anyone created an Ivory patch that sounds good in your typical small club/rehearsal room? Is there a different piano library I should look into instead? I have Kontakt and access to lots of Gigastudio samples, maybe one of those pianos is a better bet?
I have to say I'm dissapointed a bit, perhaps if I were playing in large concert halls and running everything in stereo it would be a different story, but I'm about to go dig out my Kurzweil micro-piano at this point because all I can get out of Ivory is rinny tinny tin tinny sounds that make my ears cry.
BTW, B4II sounds great (although a little on the bright side) and the tests I've done with Lounge Lizard show that it translates well too, there's just something about Ivory that doesn't translate to club systems and I really need a solution. Thanks for you input!
Ivory settings for live use, or other Piano possibilities?
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- KVRian
- 1116 posts since 22 Apr, 2005 from Nashville, TN USA
Do you have Kontakt2 and/or Kompakt on Receptor?tripjack wrote:I did some searching and found little tidbits here and there, but nothing that directly addresses this issue.
I've been working with my receptor in a live situation for a few weeks now, and am finding Ivory is just not usable. While I've had no problem creating a scaled down 4-layer patch (based on the German D) that doesn't spike the Receptor while running at 128 buffer alongside B4II, the problem is that while it sounds fine at home through my studio monitors, it just sounds awful through club/rehearsal PA systems. I'm not sure if this is due perhaps to Ivory's samples not working well in Mono or what, but I'm looking for suggestions from any of you who perhaps have already gone through this process. Has anyone created an Ivory patch that sounds good in your typical small club/rehearsal room? Is there a different piano library I should look into instead? I have Kontakt and access to lots of Gigastudio samples, maybe one of those pianos is a better bet?
I have to say I'm dissapointed a bit, perhaps if I were playing in large concert halls and running everything in stereo it would be a different story, but I'm about to go dig out my Kurzweil micro-piano at this point because all I can get out of Ivory is rinny tinny tin tinny sounds that make my ears cry.
BTW, B4II sounds great (although a little on the bright side) and the tests I've done with Lounge Lizard show that it translates well too, there's just something about Ivory that doesn't translate to club systems and I really need a solution. Thanks for you input!
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- KVRist
- 135 posts since 8 Jun, 2005
I love Ivory in the studio and hoped to use it live too. Have you tried reducing Ivory's stereo width to 0? Also, have you written to Synthology? They've been very responsive to questions I've had about running Ivory on the Mac....
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- KVRist
- 387 posts since 24 Aug, 2004
I have had success using Ivory Live - with the maximum velocity layer sample sets, at 64 latency. Can't make it glitch even if I try.
I use it in mono....set the stereo width within Ivory to 0, turn the resonance way down, reverb off, EQ to taste.
The mono-ness sounds OK, not stellar, but better than say my Nord Stage. For loud rock bands my Yamaha p250 fits the bill pretty well. I mostly use Ivory live for quieter stuff.
Oh Yeah....Steinway mostly.
I use it in mono....set the stereo width within Ivory to 0, turn the resonance way down, reverb off, EQ to taste.
The mono-ness sounds OK, not stellar, but better than say my Nord Stage. For loud rock bands my Yamaha p250 fits the bill pretty well. I mostly use Ivory live for quieter stuff.
Oh Yeah....Steinway mostly.
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 13 posts since 15 Aug, 2006
I've already tried reducing the stereo width to mono, that did help a little but not much. I am playing in a louder rock band setting and maybe that's the issue, the quieter bits are little easier on the ears. I'll try the velocity layer sets and see if that helps, everything else you mentioned I've already done.
I'd definitely be interested in hearing if any other options for Kontakt2 exist though, as Ivory even in with scaled down samples doesn't allow me to run much alongside of it and I already have Kontakt2. I'm going to try translating some of my Gigastudio piano patches into Kontakt, but they're all kinda large so I doubt they'll work out well for performance.
Thanks for your replies thus far.
I'd definitely be interested in hearing if any other options for Kontakt2 exist though, as Ivory even in with scaled down samples doesn't allow me to run much alongside of it and I already have Kontakt2. I'm going to try translating some of my Gigastudio piano patches into Kontakt, but they're all kinda large so I doubt they'll work out well for performance.
Thanks for your replies thus far.
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- KVRist
- 135 posts since 8 Jun, 2005
One other idea.... When I use Ivory on my Mac, I use IK MultiMedia's T-Racks to give Ivory more sustain and edge. (I actually use a mastering preset) Have you tried using some processing and maybe one of the bright Yamaha pianos?
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 13 posts since 15 Aug, 2006
Well the problem is that even the German is kinda too bright, a lack of warmth is the problem. I have tried tweaking an EQ plug on the Ivory channel, but I'm still not happy with results plus that eats a little more CPU which already on the edge.
I have no problems with Ivory on my Mac, or with running Ivory on receptor via S/PDIF to my Mac (I use it both ways) but there's something different about using it with club PA's that doesn't translate very well. I'm going to try a few things at rehearsal tomorrow, I'll post back if I come up with anything. Thanks again for your ideas.
I have no problems with Ivory on my Mac, or with running Ivory on receptor via S/PDIF to my Mac (I use it both ways) but there's something different about using it with club PA's that doesn't translate very well. I'm going to try a few things at rehearsal tomorrow, I'll post back if I come up with anything. Thanks again for your ideas.
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- KVRist
- 387 posts since 24 Aug, 2004
II have 2 GB of RAM. I get MUCH MUCH better performance out of Ivory than large sample libraries in Kontakt.
In Kontakt, you need to be very wary of using DFD for live perfromance. Ivory runs incredibly well. I can run it along side other non-sample based plugs, no problem. Make sure you are using the snapshots feature, and CPU use is pretty close to only having the one active plug loaded.
In Kontakt, you need to be very wary of using DFD for live perfromance. Ivory runs incredibly well. I can run it along side other non-sample based plugs, no problem. Make sure you are using the snapshots feature, and CPU use is pretty close to only having the one active plug loaded.
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 13 posts since 15 Aug, 2006
hmm, I do have 2gb of RAM in my Rev. B, and with my scaled-down Ivory patch loaded I still have 65% memory free, but the CPU takes a major hit, hanging around 40% with Ivory loaded but no MIDI being sent, but once I'm actually playing it jumps up into the 90% area, and still occasionally farts out even at 128 buffer (64 is unplayable, constant CPU farts).
I'm not familiar with the "Snapshots" feature - does that have to do with changing patches? I found that leaving the Z-Load thing disabled helps performance a bit, and since I don't ever change patches on the Receptor I don't know that whatever "snapshots" are would help me. I have just one patch, with Ivory on channel 1 and B4II on channel 2 and that's it, no other effects, instruments or anything, using the same Receptor patch for the whole show, never loading anything new etc. With the exception of the very rare CPU farts at 128 buffer it performs fine, it's just that Ivory sounds like a big ol' tinny turd.
I'm not familiar with the "Snapshots" feature - does that have to do with changing patches? I found that leaving the Z-Load thing disabled helps performance a bit, and since I don't ever change patches on the Receptor I don't know that whatever "snapshots" are would help me. I have just one patch, with Ivory on channel 1 and B4II on channel 2 and that's it, no other effects, instruments or anything, using the same Receptor patch for the whole show, never loading anything new etc. With the exception of the very rare CPU farts at 128 buffer it performs fine, it's just that Ivory sounds like a big ol' tinny turd.
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- KVRist
- 387 posts since 24 Aug, 2004
Hmmmm...I use the full patches, at 64 buffer, and never ever glitch. In fact, 64 seems to run a little better than 128!! Try messing with the buffers within Ivory. I just use the default.
Definitely keep Z-load off, and if you want to use other programs like B4II, read up on the snapshot feature. It basically serves to keep the instrument(s) you are not using from using CPU. In your case, the simplest variation would be to have 2 snapshots, one with Ivory disabled, and the other with B4II disabled, and then you would switch back and forth between the 2. Not muted at the fader level, but disabled, with the yellow "x" or whatever it is.
If you don't like the way it sounds - can't help you there. Maybe try Pianoteq or something.
Definitely keep Z-load off, and if you want to use other programs like B4II, read up on the snapshot feature. It basically serves to keep the instrument(s) you are not using from using CPU. In your case, the simplest variation would be to have 2 snapshots, one with Ivory disabled, and the other with B4II disabled, and then you would switch back and forth between the 2. Not muted at the fader level, but disabled, with the yellow "x" or whatever it is.
If you don't like the way it sounds - can't help you there. Maybe try Pianoteq or something.
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 13 posts since 15 Aug, 2006
Thanks for the info. Snapshots won't work for me as I'm triggering both instruments at the same time from different keyboards, but I'll remember it for future gigs in case my setup changes.
It does seem like it's just an issue with the way Ivory sounds, perhaps it's "too dynamic" for live use and I need something more aggressive and full with less velocity mapping. I'm taking my micro piano to rehearsal tonight, if I can't get Ivory sounding good with another tweak session I'm giving up on it and going back to the old standby (which has an annoying ground loop problem, but at least it sounds like a piano for the most part).
It does seem like it's just an issue with the way Ivory sounds, perhaps it's "too dynamic" for live use and I need something more aggressive and full with less velocity mapping. I'm taking my micro piano to rehearsal tonight, if I can't get Ivory sounding good with another tweak session I'm giving up on it and going back to the old standby (which has an annoying ground loop problem, but at least it sounds like a piano for the most part).
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- KVRist
- 387 posts since 24 Aug, 2004
Before you try less velocity mapping - try the full velocity samplesets, but play with the dynamic range button, as well as the velocity curves.tripjack wrote: It does seem like it's just an issue with the way Ivory sounds, perhaps it's "too dynamic" for live use and I need something more aggressive and full with less velocity mapping. .
If you have already,then nevermind.....
You might also want to check out White Grand Jr. from Sampletekk. The 16 bit version will fit into RAM, so you can shut off DFD in Kontakt. That is the sample set I have had the best results with for loud rock. I don't use it for that too much, because for rock band gigs I usually have Receptor loaded up with the Scarbee Wurly and use a digital piano for sample sounds.
But I have used it to good effect, and it sums better to mono than most other samplesets.
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- KVRer
- 5 posts since 24 Nov, 2004
tripjack, I agree completely with your accessment of Ivory Live. It sounds harsh to me. I use good speakers as well, JBL SRX series. I've tried others. Always the same, Ivory harsh, no warmth. I sounds good in recordings. Iwas beginning to think I was the only one.
I've switched to Akoustik Piano Bechstein. For me, I need to set the input velocity to -2 to match my playing style. Set it to ECO (ecomony mode) for the reverb. I use the 16-bit samples. You basically copy the SAMPLE16 samples over the standard 24-bit samples.
The Bechstein is nicely balanced. It seems to have the dynamic range of Ivory but a much better tone.
I've switched to Akoustik Piano Bechstein. For me, I need to set the input velocity to -2 to match my playing style. Set it to ECO (ecomony mode) for the reverb. I use the 16-bit samples. You basically copy the SAMPLE16 samples over the standard 24-bit samples.
The Bechstein is nicely balanced. It seems to have the dynamic range of Ivory but a much better tone.