Having possible problems with Sylenth 1.20.1 and ACID Pro 6.0d and possibly with Sonar 6.2.1 as well. Using Win XP Pro SP2 with Lynx ASIO drivers and a Core 2 Duo CPU. The system is very stable -- no known issues with vast majority of my large plugin library -- running rock solid.
1) ACID Pro 6.0d does not appear to save the correct preset of Sylenth when saving a project. Not sure if this is a Sylenth's fault or ACID's fault. ACID seems fine with other plugins, and Sylenth doesn't have preset problems with several other hosts I use. Again, ACID issue? Or Sylenth issue?
Reproduceable Steps: Create project in ACID. Insert Sylenth. Load a different program bank, select patch. Play/record/test, all is well. Save ACID project. Close ACID. Reload ACID, then reload ACID project. Sylenth does not show correct patch. I can reproduce this no problem. Anyone else?
2) Possible gapping issues with ACID Pro 6.0d. This I CANNOT reproduce reliably, but I can get it to eventually happen with enough patience. This is random, and I'm wondering if anyone else is experiencing this. With TWO or more Sylenth instances in ACID, periodically, randomly, without any explanation, I get a short gap on playback. I've tried several buffer/latency settings and I can eventually get this to happen with enough patience. But I can't figure out why or what is causing it. Anyone experience this in ACID?
3) In Sonar 6.2.1 I am also getting something similar to problem 2 above, just like in ACID Pro. Only in Sonar, I've also been able to get it to gap with only ONE instance of Sylenth while playing live. I've tried many different buffer/latency settings, and various settings in Sonar such as enabling and disabling 64-bit mixing mode, etc. I can eventually get a gap to happen. But then sometimes it can go for quite a long time without gapping. In one situation I noticed a CPU spike up to 41% then a gap, but I could not get it to reproduce. Anyone else having issues like this with Sylenth? I have the Windows Task Manager open and there is nothing that appears to be interfering, and I have not noticed this issue with other plugins inside Sonar.
I will continue testing this and other plugins (since I love Sylenth and I'm using it in several projects now), and I will update this thread... but if anyone has experienced this or knows of an open issue with Sylenth and ACID or Sonar, please let me know.
Lennard: Please let me know if you know of possible issues. Also, what are the hosts that you most heavily test Sylenth with? I have also tested Sylenth with Cubase SX (3.1.1) and Live (6.05) and it seems very solid in those -- apparently the issues above don't seem to be happening to me in those. So can you share what your testing apps are that you use?
Thanks!
Sylenth and possible ACID Pro 6 and Sonar 6 issues?
-
- KVRian
- 1330 posts since 25 Sep, 2006
I've tested this and it seems it doesn't switch to the right program indeed, but it does save the preset changes. I'll look into this, thanks for reporting.kaverka wrote:Create project in ACID. Insert Sylenth. Load a different program bank, select patch. Play/record/test, all is well. Save ACID project. Close ACID. Reload ACID, then reload ACID project. Sylenth does not show correct patch. I can reproduce this no problem.
I've just tried with 6 Sylenths, but didn't experience any gapping yet. I would be interested too if anyone else has tried Sylenth1 in ACID Pro.kaverka wrote:2) Possible gapping issues with ACID Pro 6.0d. This I CANNOT reproduce reliably, but I can get it to eventually happen with enough patience. This is random, and I'm wondering if anyone else is experiencing this. With TWO or more Sylenth instances in ACID, periodically, randomly, without any explanation, I get a short gap on playback. I've tried several buffer/latency settings and I can eventually get this to happen with enough patience. But I can't figure out why or what is causing it. Anyone experience this in ACID?
Also no problems with Sonar, although it seemed to stutter a bit when heavily scrolling and dragging its windows with 8 Sylenths opened. But then again, it seemed to do the same with other plugins.
I will be testing these hosts some more later. The problem in Tracktion and FL Studio is related to the GUI buffer, so if there's any stutter in Sonar or Acid at all, it'll likely be solved with the same bugfix.
Until now I've tested Cubase (main testing app), Nuendo, Live, Logic, Sonar, FL Studio, Tracktion and ACID Pro.kaverka wrote:Lennard: Please let me know if you know of possible issues. Also, what are the hosts that you most heavily test Sylenth with? I have also tested Sylenth with Cubase SX (3.1.1) and Live (6.05) and it seems very solid in those -- apparently the issues above don't seem to be happening to me in those. So can you share what your testing apps are that you use?
-
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 156 posts since 23 Feb, 2007
Great, thanks for the reply. As usual, you rock.
I'm still testing... and like I mentioned I haven't been able to get it to "reproduce consistently or predictably"... but so far nothing has ever caused my Core 2 Duo machine (e6700) to ever stutter/gap unless I'm hitting 90+% CPU usage. That's why this seems so strange to me. What's really weird is that with patience, I could get it to gap even at high latency. Thanks for the clue about Tracktion -- if it is a GUI thing (assuming you mean that it happens with the GUI open) I'll try testing it open and closed to see if that makes any difference.
Please let me know if/when you release an update/fix, and also what you find out about the ACID patch issue. Unfortunately, with ACID Pro 6.0d the patch issue is a killer for me, as you can imagine. Hopefully that will be a quick fix, if it is indeed inside Sylenth. I've never seen that behavior with other plugins in ACID though, so I'm guessing it's at least related.
EDIT: On second thought, I did notice some strange behavior with a Camel Audio plugin (CamelSpace, I believe) syncing properly inside ACID Pro 6.0d. I haven't resolved that either and it doesn't seem like it would be related at all to the patch problem or gapping with Sylenth, but I thought I'd mention it to be more accurate.
I'm still testing... and like I mentioned I haven't been able to get it to "reproduce consistently or predictably"... but so far nothing has ever caused my Core 2 Duo machine (e6700) to ever stutter/gap unless I'm hitting 90+% CPU usage. That's why this seems so strange to me. What's really weird is that with patience, I could get it to gap even at high latency. Thanks for the clue about Tracktion -- if it is a GUI thing (assuming you mean that it happens with the GUI open) I'll try testing it open and closed to see if that makes any difference.
Please let me know if/when you release an update/fix, and also what you find out about the ACID patch issue. Unfortunately, with ACID Pro 6.0d the patch issue is a killer for me, as you can imagine. Hopefully that will be a quick fix, if it is indeed inside Sylenth. I've never seen that behavior with other plugins in ACID though, so I'm guessing it's at least related.
EDIT: On second thought, I did notice some strange behavior with a Camel Audio plugin (CamelSpace, I believe) syncing properly inside ACID Pro 6.0d. I haven't resolved that either and it doesn't seem like it would be related at all to the patch problem or gapping with Sylenth, but I thought I'd mention it to be more accurate.
-
- KVRian
- 1330 posts since 25 Sep, 2006
I've done some more testing with ACID Pro and it seems that there are a lot more VSTs that have the same problem, some that I found are Synth1, Poizone, Sytrus and all SynthEdit plugins for example.kaverka wrote:Please let me know if/when you release an update/fix, and also what you find out about the ACID patch issue. Unfortunately, with ACID Pro 6.0d the patch issue is a killer for me, as you can imagine. Hopefully that will be a quick fix, if it is indeed inside Sylenth. I've never seen that behavior with other plugins in ACID though, so I'm guessing it's at least related.
As these synths all work fine in every other host, I would say this is a bug in ACID Pro. At least, I can't do anything about this yet.
There is a simple workaround though, you can store the program change easily in ACID Pro by selecting "Insert Program Change Keyframe" from the preset selector on the MIDI track.
It is related to the GUI indeed, but it doesn't matter if you open or close its windows.kaverka wrote:if it is a GUI thing (assuming you mean that it happens with the GUI open) I'll try testing it open and closed to see if that makes any difference.
Last edited by Lennard on Mon Mar 12, 2007 9:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 156 posts since 23 Feb, 2007
Good to know... I also thought of another workaround, such as using something like EnergyXT or other similar wrapper-type plugin to do the job. So it's not a huge thing, now that I think of it. I don't have Synth1, Poizone or Sytrus, and I avoid ALL Synthedit plugins in general. (The one glowing exception is yours of course, and that only because just the Sylenth interface uses Synthedit and of course because of its sound). But all the other plugins I've tried don't seem to have an issue with ACID Pro... such as the NI plugins I've tried (I own Komplete 4 and Massive) and things like Spectrasonics Atmosphere, Arturia stuff, etc... generally all the plugins I've paid $200+ for seem to be fine. They don't seem to have the same patch issue. But at least there's a few workarounds so this is no longer "killer" for me. 
Still, if you manage to find a fix for it, please do it. And the sooner you can get 100% off Synthedit, the better. I wouldn't use your plugin at all because of that, but it sounds so damn good I have no choice but to use it.
Still, if you manage to find a fix for it, please do it. And the sooner you can get 100% off Synthedit, the better. I wouldn't use your plugin at all because of that, but it sounds so damn good I have no choice but to use it. -
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 156 posts since 23 Feb, 2007
Update: I've done more testing in Sonar 6.2.1 and I'm getting pretty confident it is a problem with Sylenth. 
It may be the same GUI issue that Tracktion has...
Lennard, when do you expect you'll have a fix for the GUI issue in Tracktion? I'd like to test that out in Sonar...
I have created a song with the following plugins:
1 X NI Absynth 4
1 X NI Reaktor 5
1 X NI Massive
1 X NI Battery 3
1 X Spectrasonics Atmosphere
2 X Sylenth 1.20.1
I'm also running a few instances of the following VST's:
ArtsAcoustic Reverb
CamelSpace
URS 1975 Compressor
FabFilter Timeless
Kjaerhus GAC1
Ozone 3
CPU load on Core2Duo CPU: about 34% -- This is a typical config for me to sketch new songs with.
With this setup, I get periodic gapping/dropouts like I've described previously. I can't get it to do it every time I play the tracks back, but with patience, I will get it to gap. Sometimes it will gap once, and sometimes it will gap twice in the same song. Then it may go several times without gapping. Then it will start gapping again.
So, I tested by REPLACING the two Sylenth instances with two more Massive instances, so now my example has 3 total instances of Massive running and 0 instances of Sylenth.
Load with 3 instances of Massive and 0 instances of Sylenth: about 41% (No surprise! Massive is heavier on CPU!)
Now, on playback I get NO gapping when Sylenth is not present, even with the higher CPU load of Massive. I've played this over and over and I cannot get it to gap. No other differences exist in the projects, except the instances of Sylenth.
Comments? Confirmations?
Let me know when you think the GUI fix is done and I'll be happy to test it. At this point I feel 98% sure it is Sylenth-related (I'd be 100% sure, except I guess there's always a tiny chance I've missed something) and from what you describe, it might be the same issue as the Tracktion GUI issue.
And by the way, the patches I used are LD Xorgman with long sustains and DR Noise Clap
It may be the same GUI issue that Tracktion has... Lennard, when do you expect you'll have a fix for the GUI issue in Tracktion? I'd like to test that out in Sonar...
I have created a song with the following plugins:
1 X NI Absynth 4
1 X NI Reaktor 5
1 X NI Massive
1 X NI Battery 3
1 X Spectrasonics Atmosphere
2 X Sylenth 1.20.1
I'm also running a few instances of the following VST's:
ArtsAcoustic Reverb
CamelSpace
URS 1975 Compressor
FabFilter Timeless
Kjaerhus GAC1
Ozone 3
CPU load on Core2Duo CPU: about 34% -- This is a typical config for me to sketch new songs with.
With this setup, I get periodic gapping/dropouts like I've described previously. I can't get it to do it every time I play the tracks back, but with patience, I will get it to gap. Sometimes it will gap once, and sometimes it will gap twice in the same song. Then it may go several times without gapping. Then it will start gapping again.
So, I tested by REPLACING the two Sylenth instances with two more Massive instances, so now my example has 3 total instances of Massive running and 0 instances of Sylenth.
Load with 3 instances of Massive and 0 instances of Sylenth: about 41% (No surprise! Massive is heavier on CPU!)
Now, on playback I get NO gapping when Sylenth is not present, even with the higher CPU load of Massive. I've played this over and over and I cannot get it to gap. No other differences exist in the projects, except the instances of Sylenth.
Comments? Confirmations?
Let me know when you think the GUI fix is done and I'll be happy to test it. At this point I feel 98% sure it is Sylenth-related (I'd be 100% sure, except I guess there's always a tiny chance I've missed something) and from what you describe, it might be the same issue as the Tracktion GUI issue.
And by the way, the patches I used are LD Xorgman with long sustains and DR Noise Clap
-
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 156 posts since 23 Feb, 2007
ANOTHER UPDATE:
Okay, now I've run a similar series of tests in ACID Pro 6.0d, very similar to the song in Sonar 6.2.1. And I was experiencing gapping just like in Sonar 6.2.1, but when I replaced the two instances of Sylenth with instances of Massive, the gapping disappeared. Again, the only difference was the presence of Sylenth in the project versus Massive.
Also, I re-tested Sylenth in Live 6.05 and I confirmed that I did NOT get any gapping in Live. Seems to work just great there. I had previously tested Sylenth with Cubase and it also seemed fine in there.
So, at this point and after all my testing, I feel pretty good about concluding:
1. Sonar or ACID Pro + Sylenth = occasional gapping
2. Also, in ACID Pro, there are preset recall issues with Sylenth (there is a workaround though as previously discussed)
3. Cubase or Live + Sylenth = NO gapping, working fine
I have not tested Sylenth in Tracktion, REAPER, FL or other apps yet.
Conclusion? I'd like to test the Tracktion-Sylenth GUI fix ASAP if possible. Let me know when you've got that version done, Lennard and I'll jump right on it.
Done with testing for now until Lennard releases new version. It's a real bummer because it's incredibly irritating to work in Sonar or ACID and have these gapping occurrences. So for now, I feel stuck using Sylenth in either Cubase or Live. I'm not a fan of Cubase so that really leaves me with Live, which is not as powerful for my type of compositions... oh well...
The last thing I MAY try is to wrap Sylenth in something like EnergyXT and see if that helps, because I really love the sound of Sylenth and this bug/issue has put a damper on my use of it somewhat.
Okay, now I've run a similar series of tests in ACID Pro 6.0d, very similar to the song in Sonar 6.2.1. And I was experiencing gapping just like in Sonar 6.2.1, but when I replaced the two instances of Sylenth with instances of Massive, the gapping disappeared. Again, the only difference was the presence of Sylenth in the project versus Massive.
Also, I re-tested Sylenth in Live 6.05 and I confirmed that I did NOT get any gapping in Live. Seems to work just great there. I had previously tested Sylenth with Cubase and it also seemed fine in there.
So, at this point and after all my testing, I feel pretty good about concluding:
1. Sonar or ACID Pro + Sylenth = occasional gapping
2. Also, in ACID Pro, there are preset recall issues with Sylenth (there is a workaround though as previously discussed)
3. Cubase or Live + Sylenth = NO gapping, working fine
I have not tested Sylenth in Tracktion, REAPER, FL or other apps yet.
Conclusion? I'd like to test the Tracktion-Sylenth GUI fix ASAP if possible. Let me know when you've got that version done, Lennard and I'll jump right on it.
Done with testing for now until Lennard releases new version. It's a real bummer because it's incredibly irritating to work in Sonar or ACID and have these gapping occurrences. So for now, I feel stuck using Sylenth in either Cubase or Live. I'm not a fan of Cubase so that really leaves me with Live, which is not as powerful for my type of compositions... oh well...
The last thing I MAY try is to wrap Sylenth in something like EnergyXT and see if that helps, because I really love the sound of Sylenth and this bug/issue has put a damper on my use of it somewhat.
-
- KVRian
- 1330 posts since 25 Sep, 2006
Thanks for testing. Wrapping Sylenth1 in EnergyXT will not help, but I know for sure that wrapping it in Xlutop Chainer solves the problem in FL Studio. So please give that one a try to see if that solves the problem in ACID/Sonar too.
The gapping is caused by a problem in SynthEdit, so unfortunately I can not fix this myself until I've rewritten the entire interface with the VSTSDK. However, there will be a new version of SE soon (v1.1) that fixes this problem. There's no official release date known yet, but the creator of SE said he's got about 90% done already so it can't be too long.
*Edit* Just tried Chainer in ACID Pro, and it seems to fix the Program Change issue too.
The gapping is caused by a problem in SynthEdit, so unfortunately I can not fix this myself until I've rewritten the entire interface with the VSTSDK. However, there will be a new version of SE soon (v1.1) that fixes this problem. There's no official release date known yet, but the creator of SE said he's got about 90% done already so it can't be too long.
*Edit* Just tried Chainer in ACID Pro, and it seems to fix the Program Change issue too.
-
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 156 posts since 23 Feb, 2007
Sounds good. I'll try Xlutop Chainer shortly. Maybe now you can light some fire under the Synthedit guy to get his act together, or better yet, ditch Synthedit ASAP! Just one more reason to take control of everything in your code anyway, and you can finally get rid of any negative stigma that goes along with Synthedit.
Just one more reason to take control of everything in your code anyway, and you can finally get rid of any negative stigma that goes along with Synthedit. -
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 156 posts since 23 Feb, 2007
I still haven't had the chance to try Chainer yet, but I will shortly.Lennard wrote:Thanks for testing. Wrapping Sylenth1 in EnergyXT will not help, but I know for sure that wrapping it in Xlutop Chainer solves the problem in FL Studio.
HOWEVER, I did try wrapping Sylenth in EnergyXT inside of Sonar, and I can confirm that you still get gapping. So EnergyXT is out as a solution here too.
-
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 156 posts since 23 Feb, 2007
I was finally able to try out the demo of Xlutop Chainer, and it was initially a little flaky in Sonar 6.2.1... something with the GUI didn't seem right. But then I got going with it and unfortunately, I still had some gapping in Sonar with Chainer + Sylenth. However, it seemed to gap a little less than before... I've now played my sequence 10-15 times without gapping... that's the best I've seen in Sonar with Sylenth. So perhaps Chainer might indeed be helping a little. Oh well. Still not the way it should be. Please keep pushing for a new update, Lennard! Right now for me, the most reliable hosts for Sylenth appear to be Cubase and Live.
Update: Well, Chainer and Sylenth inside of Sonar are gapping again... almost as bad as before... oh well... I can't recommend this solution.
Please keep pushing for a new update, Lennard! Right now for me, the most reliable hosts for Sylenth appear to be Cubase and Live.Update: Well, Chainer and Sylenth inside of Sonar are gapping again... almost as bad as before... oh well... I can't recommend this solution.
-
- KVRian
- 1330 posts since 25 Sep, 2006
That's weird, if Chainer doesn't fix it, I'm pretty sure that it's not Sylenth that's causing the problem. What happens if you add chainer, but do not load Sylenth1 in it, does it still stutter?
-
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 156 posts since 23 Feb, 2007
Hi Lennard, thanks for checking in on this thread. I already uninstalled Chainer since I've given up on it. Also note that it was the demo (1.03), not sure if that has anything to do with it. I don't think it would be the problem since it's the same download file, just missing the license key. Also, there were no other real issues with Chainer at all (except a possible small GUI issue). Just not worth the money to buy a license since I have so many other options.
As I mentioned it was initially giving Sonar 6.2.1 some strange GUI issues, but then it seemed to be working fine with everything I put into it. I tested it in other apps and it was fine too -- only Sonar had the strange intitial GUI issue. It might have been related to how X-Ray works (a new feature in Sonar 6.2), or maybe I was coming back from a screen saver... I'm not sure.
By itself, I did not notice an gapping/stuttering with just Chainer, or frankly any of the other plugins I've tested. My Sonar and DAW are rock solid. The only thing that causes gapping or stuttering like this in Sonar 6.2.1 is Sylenth, of all the plugins I've tested. (EDIT: FYI Note that the only SynthEdit-related plugin I use is Sylenth. There are no other SynthEdit-related plugins on my system, so I can't compare if other SynthEdit plugins might cause the same problem.) And it makes no difference if it's loaded in Chainer or EnergyXT. I might try one more -- SonicBytes Phrazor -- but I'm losing hope anything will give me problem-free performance with Sylenth inside Sonar at this point... until you release another update.
No matter what I've tried and all the several hours of testing I've done now, if Sylenth is loaded in Sonar 6.2.1, at some point I'll get some stuttering.
So for now, I've relegated Sylenth to run only in Live 6.05, in which it is rock solid and totally stutter-free. If desperate I'll load up Cubase in which it also works great, but I prefer to use Sonar over Cubase most of the time. And if I'm REALLLLY desperate and can handle the annoyance, technically, I can still load it up into Sonar, but I just have to be ready for the occasional gapping, which is very bad news when I'm recording vocals or guitar. So I feel I'm kind of out of luck until an update from you.....
I can live with this for now, since I love your synth and I know you will be releasing an update. But please keep it on the front burner!
As I mentioned it was initially giving Sonar 6.2.1 some strange GUI issues, but then it seemed to be working fine with everything I put into it. I tested it in other apps and it was fine too -- only Sonar had the strange intitial GUI issue. It might have been related to how X-Ray works (a new feature in Sonar 6.2), or maybe I was coming back from a screen saver... I'm not sure.
By itself, I did not notice an gapping/stuttering with just Chainer, or frankly any of the other plugins I've tested. My Sonar and DAW are rock solid. The only thing that causes gapping or stuttering like this in Sonar 6.2.1 is Sylenth, of all the plugins I've tested. (EDIT: FYI Note that the only SynthEdit-related plugin I use is Sylenth. There are no other SynthEdit-related plugins on my system, so I can't compare if other SynthEdit plugins might cause the same problem.) And it makes no difference if it's loaded in Chainer or EnergyXT. I might try one more -- SonicBytes Phrazor -- but I'm losing hope anything will give me problem-free performance with Sylenth inside Sonar at this point... until you release another update.
No matter what I've tried and all the several hours of testing I've done now, if Sylenth is loaded in Sonar 6.2.1, at some point I'll get some stuttering.
So for now, I've relegated Sylenth to run only in Live 6.05, in which it is rock solid and totally stutter-free. If desperate I'll load up Cubase in which it also works great, but I prefer to use Sonar over Cubase most of the time. And if I'm REALLLLY desperate and can handle the annoyance, technically, I can still load it up into Sonar, but I just have to be ready for the occasional gapping, which is very bad news when I'm recording vocals or guitar. So I feel I'm kind of out of luck until an update from you.....
I can live with this for now, since I love your synth and I know you will be releasing an update. But please keep it on the front burner!
-
- KVRian
- 1330 posts since 25 Sep, 2006
I understand, but there's a big difference between using Sylenth1 in Sonar directly or using it wrapped in Chainer. Chainer solves the gapping problem completely in FL Studio, this has been confirmed by several users already. EnergyXT otoh doesn't help at all.kaverka wrote:By itself, I did not notice an gapping/stuttering with just Chainer, or frankly any of the other plugins I've tested. My Sonar and DAW are rock solid. The only thing that causes gapping or stuttering like this in Sonar 6.2.1 is Sylenth, of all the plugins I've tested. (EDIT: FYI Note that the only SynthEdit-related plugin I use is Sylenth. There are no other SynthEdit-related plugins on my system, so I can't compare if other SynthEdit plugins might cause the same problem.) And it makes no difference if it's loaded in Chainer or EnergyXT. I might try one more -- SonicBytes Phrazor -- but I'm losing hope anything will give me problem-free performance with Sylenth inside Sonar at this point... until you release another update.
No matter what I've tried and all the several hours of testing I've done now, if Sylenth is loaded in Sonar 6.2.1, at some point I'll get some stuttering.
So if there is gapping in Sonar caused by this same bug, it should stop gapping when you wrap it in Chainer too. If it doesn't, I would say the gapping is caused by something else.
Anyway, I've done some more testing with Sonar too. It seems that it doesn't really make a difference if I use Chainer, since it doesn't really gap in the first place. It does stutter a bit when I've got a lot of Sylenths running and start scrolling Sonar's main screen up and down fast, but I tried the same with a set of NI Pro53's instead of Sylenth's and the stuttering remained exactly the same.
I found that when I lowered the priority of Sonar in the windows taskmanager, the stuttering would decrease and when I gave it high priority the stuttering would increase when scrolling its window. Seems Sonar doesn't manage the priorities of the audio and gui threads very well.
-
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 156 posts since 23 Feb, 2007
Hi Lennard,
Yes, I tested Sylenth IN Chainer, which was IN Sonar and also tested Sylenth directly in Sonar. I've had gapping in both scenarios. So perhaps this is not the same thing as the FL bug. As I mentioned, the gapping was less prevalent when it was running in Chainer+Sonar, but still enough to be frustrating. I do not recall any gapping when I used Chainer standalone mode.
Keep in mind from all my posts in this and other threads, this is a powerful DAW (E6700 Core 2 Duo) that is rock solid with Lynx drivers (known for their excellence, and I can vouch for that too after building and testing many DAWs with many hardware configs), and I'm not pushing it past 35% CPU usage when this happens. See my prior detailed posts for what I did initially to test it. I've gone way beyond that now with the time I've spent on this and done other tests. I have this happen occasionally with very low CPU usage, even with one instance of Sylenth. I'm not even playing around with the interface of Sonar when this happens. I've tried just about everything. I've worked with it extensively in Sonar, Live, Cubase and ACID Pro. I have not tried FL. I have tried it so many ways my head spins thinking about it, with and without Chainer, EnergyXT, etc., latencies, etc., etc., etc., etc., other tweaks, etc. I'm pretty much at the end of my rope and resigned that I won't get it to work perfectly in Sonar. I feel that any more tweaking is a waste of time.
The bottom line is that for me, on my machine, I am getting gapping no matter what I do with Sylenth in Sonar. I stopped testing it in ACID since I can live without that configuration for what I do, and I REALLY dislike the preset bug there.... I don't want to have to use Chainer just for that bug. Plus Sonar is a primary composition tool for me, and the main one I want to use Sylenth in right now. For ME, it gaps, no matter what in Sonar. Remember: I'm not saying this happens every time I play back or record the midi tracks... I've said a few times, it can go several times without gapping. And I also had "better" luck with Chainer one time in Sonar where it went 10-15 times without gapping. That's pretty good. I've sat here playing it over and over and over and over testing it... One gap every 2-5 playbacks is okay for screwing around by yourself. One gap in front of client is very embarrassing, but I can live with it. One gap in the middle of recording an audio track is disaster.
I understand your point that Chainer may have completely solved the FL issue. I get that. For ME, it has not solved the Sonar issue. And I also understand it may therefore be a different issue. If I feel up to it, I may try testing FL as well, just to see what Chainer does for me in FL. I'm not sure I want to punish myself anymore. Who knows, maybe it only solved it "enough" in FL to get it to appear to work fine, whereas it only "partially" solves it in Sonar. After all, it did do BETTER with Chainer than without it in Sonar. So maybe it IS the same bug, only it isn't totally being solved in Sonar with Chainer.
The problem I have with it, and why this is so frustrating now to me, is that NO OTHER PLUGIN I HAVE TESTED DOES THIS. Not one. I can give you a list but it would go on for a long time. Suffice it to say I've spent $thousands on plugins for my studio. And Sylenth is the only one that is giving me this type of problem in Sonar. Of COURSE, some other plugins give me different types of problems in one host or another from time to time... I'm not saying everything else is perfect. I had tons of issues with some of the plugins in NI Komplete 4 when it was first released, but they've released patches and now they have resolved just about everything for me... and they are working wonderfully for me now under very heavy loads.
I also have Pro53 (obviously, since it's part of Komplete), among dozens and dozens of other VSTi, and Pro53 does NOT gap at all for me in Sonar 6.2.1 or anything else for that matter, that I can recall. I can slam my CPU to 80+% in Sonar before I even get close to gapping with Pro53, for example, even on very low latency. I credit the awesome Lynx drivers for how reliable my system is. I listed several of the other plugins I've tested earlier in this thread. Nothing during my testing makes my system gap at these CPU levels in Sonar, except Sylenth, even at miniscule CPU usage.
I can run a ton of Sylenths in Live 6 and it doesn't hiccup for a nanosecond! Same with Cubase. But not in Sonar. Again, I have torture-tested this Sonar config with other plugins, and it doesn't gap. Sonar 6.2.1 is working great with all my projects, without gapping at all, even under high CPU load, super low latency, as long as I don't have Sylenth in the project.
Again, bottom line is that for ME on this DAW, (pretty much the most reliable and stable DAW I've ever assembled in over a decade of doing this), after almost exhaustive and certainly exhausting testing, (Sonar 6.2.1) + (Sylenth 1.20.1) = (periodic gaps). Maybe for some people it is working fine in Sonar. Maybe they haven't really tested it or used it yet in Sonar 6.2.1 in a real production? Maybe there's a different issue than any of us aware of? Maybe everyone is using Cubase and Live (which I CAN vouch for that work wonderfully with Sylenth)? Maybe no one is using this with Sonar 6.2.1 on a Core2Duo machine? Or who knows what else.
And just as an aside comment, especially based on my extensive testing and posts above, it doesn't do any good to criticize Sonar by saying that it doesn't manage the properties of the audio and gui threads very well. This may or may not be true, but based on my testing and experience, comparing it to many DAWs, Sonar does rather well. And after all the testing I've done on this here, at least in my mind, I've eliminated Sonar as the cause of the problem. Just by pure logic alone, if ALL the other plugins I've tested work fine with it, how could it possibly be the fault of Sonar? Or ACID? Or FL? It's easy to blame something you didn't write. And if I didn't know already how much you value quality in your product, I'd think you might be trying to pass the blame.
I just know that for me, now, I'm pretty much at the end of the line until you have an update for me to try. And I will try it. Again, I've said this a million times, I LOVE your plugin. I paid for it and have recommended it to many of my colleagues as a killer, go-to synth. I'm probably responsible for a few sales of it due to my recommendations. Otherwise I wouldn't have gone through all this trouble to get it to work in Sonar. I KNOW what I'm doing here on this end. At this point I'm 95%+ convinced the key issue resides in Sylenth and without having read the source code I'll just blame it on SynthEdit for now, and impatiently await an update from you.
I MAY continue to try a few more things (like SonicBytes Phrazor, etc.), but my DAW is definitely not to blame since it works so well. Heck, even Sylenth works perfectly in Live and Cubase on the same machine. What I'm saying is no criticism of Sylenth, but rather it's a huge compliment that I've been willing to go out of my way to use it.
If you can, please let me know when you think a new update is coming... days? weeks? months?
Yes, I tested Sylenth IN Chainer, which was IN Sonar and also tested Sylenth directly in Sonar. I've had gapping in both scenarios. So perhaps this is not the same thing as the FL bug. As I mentioned, the gapping was less prevalent when it was running in Chainer+Sonar, but still enough to be frustrating. I do not recall any gapping when I used Chainer standalone mode.
Keep in mind from all my posts in this and other threads, this is a powerful DAW (E6700 Core 2 Duo) that is rock solid with Lynx drivers (known for their excellence, and I can vouch for that too after building and testing many DAWs with many hardware configs), and I'm not pushing it past 35% CPU usage when this happens. See my prior detailed posts for what I did initially to test it. I've gone way beyond that now with the time I've spent on this and done other tests. I have this happen occasionally with very low CPU usage, even with one instance of Sylenth. I'm not even playing around with the interface of Sonar when this happens. I've tried just about everything. I've worked with it extensively in Sonar, Live, Cubase and ACID Pro. I have not tried FL. I have tried it so many ways my head spins thinking about it, with and without Chainer, EnergyXT, etc., latencies, etc., etc., etc., etc., other tweaks, etc. I'm pretty much at the end of my rope and resigned that I won't get it to work perfectly in Sonar. I feel that any more tweaking is a waste of time.
The bottom line is that for me, on my machine, I am getting gapping no matter what I do with Sylenth in Sonar. I stopped testing it in ACID since I can live without that configuration for what I do, and I REALLY dislike the preset bug there.... I don't want to have to use Chainer just for that bug. Plus Sonar is a primary composition tool for me, and the main one I want to use Sylenth in right now. For ME, it gaps, no matter what in Sonar. Remember: I'm not saying this happens every time I play back or record the midi tracks... I've said a few times, it can go several times without gapping. And I also had "better" luck with Chainer one time in Sonar where it went 10-15 times without gapping. That's pretty good. I've sat here playing it over and over and over and over testing it... One gap every 2-5 playbacks is okay for screwing around by yourself. One gap in front of client is very embarrassing, but I can live with it. One gap in the middle of recording an audio track is disaster.
I understand your point that Chainer may have completely solved the FL issue. I get that. For ME, it has not solved the Sonar issue. And I also understand it may therefore be a different issue. If I feel up to it, I may try testing FL as well, just to see what Chainer does for me in FL. I'm not sure I want to punish myself anymore. Who knows, maybe it only solved it "enough" in FL to get it to appear to work fine, whereas it only "partially" solves it in Sonar. After all, it did do BETTER with Chainer than without it in Sonar. So maybe it IS the same bug, only it isn't totally being solved in Sonar with Chainer.
The problem I have with it, and why this is so frustrating now to me, is that NO OTHER PLUGIN I HAVE TESTED DOES THIS. Not one. I can give you a list but it would go on for a long time. Suffice it to say I've spent $thousands on plugins for my studio. And Sylenth is the only one that is giving me this type of problem in Sonar. Of COURSE, some other plugins give me different types of problems in one host or another from time to time... I'm not saying everything else is perfect. I had tons of issues with some of the plugins in NI Komplete 4 when it was first released, but they've released patches and now they have resolved just about everything for me... and they are working wonderfully for me now under very heavy loads.
I also have Pro53 (obviously, since it's part of Komplete), among dozens and dozens of other VSTi, and Pro53 does NOT gap at all for me in Sonar 6.2.1 or anything else for that matter, that I can recall. I can slam my CPU to 80+% in Sonar before I even get close to gapping with Pro53, for example, even on very low latency. I credit the awesome Lynx drivers for how reliable my system is. I listed several of the other plugins I've tested earlier in this thread. Nothing during my testing makes my system gap at these CPU levels in Sonar, except Sylenth, even at miniscule CPU usage.
I can run a ton of Sylenths in Live 6 and it doesn't hiccup for a nanosecond! Same with Cubase. But not in Sonar. Again, I have torture-tested this Sonar config with other plugins, and it doesn't gap. Sonar 6.2.1 is working great with all my projects, without gapping at all, even under high CPU load, super low latency, as long as I don't have Sylenth in the project.
Again, bottom line is that for ME on this DAW, (pretty much the most reliable and stable DAW I've ever assembled in over a decade of doing this), after almost exhaustive and certainly exhausting testing, (Sonar 6.2.1) + (Sylenth 1.20.1) = (periodic gaps). Maybe for some people it is working fine in Sonar. Maybe they haven't really tested it or used it yet in Sonar 6.2.1 in a real production? Maybe there's a different issue than any of us aware of? Maybe everyone is using Cubase and Live (which I CAN vouch for that work wonderfully with Sylenth)? Maybe no one is using this with Sonar 6.2.1 on a Core2Duo machine? Or who knows what else.
And just as an aside comment, especially based on my extensive testing and posts above, it doesn't do any good to criticize Sonar by saying that it doesn't manage the properties of the audio and gui threads very well. This may or may not be true, but based on my testing and experience, comparing it to many DAWs, Sonar does rather well. And after all the testing I've done on this here, at least in my mind, I've eliminated Sonar as the cause of the problem. Just by pure logic alone, if ALL the other plugins I've tested work fine with it, how could it possibly be the fault of Sonar? Or ACID? Or FL? It's easy to blame something you didn't write. And if I didn't know already how much you value quality in your product, I'd think you might be trying to pass the blame.
I just know that for me, now, I'm pretty much at the end of the line until you have an update for me to try. And I will try it. Again, I've said this a million times, I LOVE your plugin. I paid for it and have recommended it to many of my colleagues as a killer, go-to synth. I'm probably responsible for a few sales of it due to my recommendations.
Otherwise I wouldn't have gone through all this trouble to get it to work in Sonar. I KNOW what I'm doing here on this end. At this point I'm 95%+ convinced the key issue resides in Sylenth and without having read the source code I'll just blame it on SynthEdit for now, and impatiently await an update from you. I MAY continue to try a few more things (like SonicBytes Phrazor, etc.), but my DAW is definitely not to blame since it works so well. Heck, even Sylenth works perfectly in Live and Cubase on the same machine. What I'm saying is no criticism of Sylenth, but rather it's a huge compliment that I've been willing to go out of my way to use it.
If you can, please let me know when you think a new update is coming... days? weeks? months?