MuTools

muzycian · Post by **muzycian** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 2:45 pm

Hi,

MU.LAB beta A has been released to a closed group of beta testers.

We're still looking for beta testers to put the MU.LAB Beta on their pain bank.

If you are an experienced beta tester, or want to get experience in beta testing, meaning that you're not afraid of a crash here and there, at the contrary: you're eager to find bugs and malfunctions and find how to repeat them, well in that case please email me with your email address and you'll added to the group.

If you don't own a user license yet, and you're doing a good job during beta testing (find bugs, report them, eventually do specific tests), you'll be rewarded with a MU.LAB Unlimited User License for free.

Please do not ask for the beta as a way of demoing this software for yourself.

This version is not yet declared stable.

Soon a stable public demo will be available and it's better both for yourself as for MUTOOLS that you demo a stable MU.LAB!

Cheers,

Jo

--

http://www.mutools.com

pljones · Post by **pljones** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 7:54 pm

Okay...

Modular synth! Wow! WOW!

I mean, it's a *MODULAR SYNTH*!! With VST support! WOW!

Can we have labels for the parameters?

Got a couple of crashes when I scanned my VSTs (I keep a couple of troublesome ones in there just for such purposes):
http://www.drealm.info/mu.lab/drwtsn32-200710012020.log
http://www.drealm.info/mu.lab/drwtsn32-200710012021.log
The scan continued fine afterwards.

Generally, the UI feels MUCH slicker than LUNA.

Doc links in the email weren't working when I tried a couple of hours ago, by the way.

What do the "Load/Save xxx File" (xxx=Voice/MIDI/Audio/Plugin/MuSynth) do in the MPA? (Hmm... presets... But Voice/MIDI/Audio have no settings and Plugin just looks weird.)

I can add a MuSynth to a MUX but I can't add one directly to the (general, F3) MPA. Nor as a rack entry with "Choose plugin"

What's the difference between a MUX with a Voice In and a MuSynth? (Does using a Voice In plug automatically mean I'll get a new instance for each running note?)

Bonteburg · Post by **Bonteburg** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:18 pm

The GUI has improved out of sight ! I love it.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-Loading a wave into the WFR oscillator takes pretty long, but then my sample folder is huge.

-I can't seem to lose the crazy loop when I load a .wav file - "bug or feature?"

If it's a feature I suggest you add some kind of "simply load a .wav and that's it" mode, making it more, shall we say samplist friendly.

-The strange hanging / endless note problem is still there.
You know, the OSX specific vsti-host one?
Playing chords is a big no-no.

-Don't know if I didn't do it myself by clicking some opton but at one point it seemed I couldn't choose any synzhs from a rack? Only effects and mulabs stuff. Creating a new project fixed this.

-Also , I don't always get audio from instruments, even if they are activated in the little box on the top right. Again, creating a new procject makes everything ok.

Marco

muzycian · Post by **muzycian** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:18 pm

pljones wrote:Okay...

Modular synth! Wow! WOW!

I mean, it's a *MODULAR SYNTH*!! With VST support! WOW!

Within the MuSynth patches you can't use vst plugs.

Of course you can use vst plugs in the mixdesk and the modular plug area.

Can we have labels for the parameters?

Just click the parameter display in the middle of the knobs. That lets you edit the parameter label

Got a couple of crashes when I scanned my VSTs (I keep a couple of troublesome ones in there just for such purposes):
http://www.drealm.info/mu.lab/drwtsn32-200710012020.log
http://www.drealm.info/mu.lab/drwtsn32-200710012021.log
The scan continued fine afterwards.

That were Rapture and CM Vocoder, right?

Generally, the UI feels MUCH slicker than LUNA.

Big Thanks also to Calum Wilson who did a great job on the skin!!

Doc links in the email weren't working when I tried a couple of hours ago, by the way.

Right

Now they do

The same docs are also included with the package.

You can pop them up via the Help menu -> Read Documentation

What do the "Load/Save xxx File" (xxx=Voice/MIDI/Audio/Plugin/MuSynth) do in the MPA? (Hmm... presets... But Voice/MIDI/Audio have no settings and Plugin just looks weird.)

Euh, can you email me a screenshot please. Not sure what you mean.

I can add a MuSynth to a MUX but I can't add one directly to the (general, F3) MPA. Nor as a rack entry with "Choose plugin"

Note that the distributed beta is a "MU.LAB Free" and thus has a limit of 4 synths.

The Unlimited version will be baked as soon as the beta is stabelized & finetuned.

What's the difference between a MUX with a Voice In and a MuSynth? (Does using a Voice In plug automatically mean I'll get a new instance for each running note?)

No, that is exactly the difference: only the MuSynth works with voices, the MUX does not.

But you can use an oscillator in the MPA and MUX, for example as an input for a ring modulator.

And then you can send note events to that oscillator and so you can "sequence the ring modulator".

As in this ring modulator example: http://www.mutools.com/mulab/example.mp3 (temporary link)

First 2 bars is without note inputs, thus just a straight ring mod, last 2 bars is with note input from a sequence.

Oops, i see something now: the voice in/out plugs should not appear in the mux! they're n.a. there.
Will be finetuned in beta b.

muzycian · Post by **muzycian** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:38 pm

Bonteburg wrote:The GUI has improved out of sight ! I love it.

Big credits to Calum Wilson!

-Loading a wave into the WFR oscillator takes pretty long, but then my sample folder is huge.

What do you mean with "it takes long"?

I just checked loading a waveform into a WFT Oscillator (WFT=WaveFormTable) and that's pretty instant, both on windows as osx.

Or do you mean that navigating takes long..?

Not sure what you mean

-I can't seem to lose the crazy loop when I load a .wav file - "bug or feature?"

Which crazy loop do you mean?

If it's a feature I suggest you add some kind of "simply load a .wav and that's it" mode, making it more, shall we say samplist friendly.

I totally cannot follow

Can you record this with a mic or something and email me an mp3, maybe then i get a clue.

-The strange hanging / endless note problem is still there.
You know, the OSX specific vsti-host one?
Playing chords is a big no-no.

Marco, didn't we have this issue in the past?
Didn't we resolve this?
I'm not sure, it's some time ago...
Please refresh my ram

-Don't know if I didn't do it myself by clicking some opton but at one point it seemed I couldn't choose any synzhs from a rack? Only effects and mulabs stuff. Creating a new project fixed this.

This is a "MU.LAB Free" version, thus you can only use up to 4 synths and 8 racks.
This beta version is also time limited to 28th october.
The Unlimited version will be baked as soon as the beta is stabelized & finetuned.
Cfr the beta email.

I know that giving some alert like "no more synths in this free version" would be good, but that's a perfect point for hackers to step in

-Also , I don't always get audio from instruments, even if they are activated in the little box on the top right. Again, creating a new procject makes everything ok.

Mmm, not sure about this one. What do you exactly mean with "even if they are activated in the little box on the top right". Can you please send a screenshot.

Just a guess: maybe you have set a part to play synth A, but synth A is not yet connected to an output?

By default, when you start mulab, you get 4 racks, and these 4 racks are already connected to the main out.

So if you plug in a synth in a rack, and let the part play to that rack, you should hear the synth.

(unless you have plugged in something in the same rack, more 'downstream', that blocks the audio)

toxicoh · Post by **toxicoh** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:54 pm

Hello everyone,
First impressions are:
1) It works (after the "known issue of no sound at first startup").
2) I like the skin
3) Muverb is good. I seem to have crashed it with an extreme setting though (not repeatable).
4) MuSynth is good. I was able to get a disgusting infinite loop going with extreme delay settings. Changing the Effects Slider didn't make any difference(?) The knobs were able to reduce the output.
I'm still learning about the modules.
Good work!

David

muzycian · Post by **muzycian** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:00 pm

toxicoh wrote:Hello everyone,
First impressions are:
1) It works (after the "known issue of no sound at first startup").

Yes, i can repeat it here, it's an osx issue, still have to narrow it down.

2) I like the skin

Cheers to Calum Wilson!

It's worth mentioning it 3 times

3) Muverb is good. I seem to have crashed it with an extreme setting though (not repeatable).

Ok, will also torture it right away

Hope i get it to crash too.

4) MuSynth is good. I was able to get a disgusting infinite loop going with extreme delay settings. Changing the Effects Slider didn't make any difference(?) The knobs were able to reduce the output.

Mmm, that sounds like what Marco wrote..? Not sure.

Which "Effects Slider" do you mean?

pljones · Post by **pljones** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:03 pm

muzycian wrote:Within the MuSynth patches you can't use vst plugs.

Mmm... I can add a rack to the MuSynth MPA and add VSTs to that, though, and the effects in the rack then process what's passed to them, so that's pretty special. If unintended

Just click the parameter display in the middle of the knobs. That lets you edit the parameter label

Aha!

That were Rapture and CM Vocoder, right?

Yep.

What do the "Load/Save xxx File" (xxx=Voice/MIDI/Audio/Plugin/MuSynth) do in the MPA? (Hmm... presets... But Voice/MIDI/Audio have no settings and Plugin just looks weird.)
Euh, can you email me a screenshot please. Not sure what you mean.

http://www.drealm.info/mu.lab/voice.png menu appears on right-click of Voice In plugin.
http://www.drealm.info/mu.lab/mux.png menu appears on right-click of MUX plugin.
The "Load" and "Save" options appear at the end. Similar menus, with "Voice" or "MUX" replaced by MIDI, Audio, Plugin or MuSynth when right-clicking the appropriate plugin in the MPA.
http://www.drealm.info/mu.lab/AddPlugin.png highlights the two "Plugin" options. The first one gives the "nothing to edit" message when double-clicked. The second gives http://www.drealm.info/mu.lab/plugin2.png

Note that the distributed beta is a "MU.LAB Free" and thus has a limit of 4 synths.

Gotcha...

Oops, i see something now: the voice in/out plugs should not appear in the mux! they're n.a. there. Will be finetuned in beta b.

Ah, right. Sneaky suspicion there's more of those around

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:05 pm

MuSynth!!!!

As a Muzys owner that's Muzyc to my ears

pljones · Post by **pljones** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:08 pm

Help! If I set a rack Event Output to a MIDI Out port, how do I turn it back to "No MIDI Event Out"?

muzycian · Post by **muzycian** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:31 pm

pljones wrote:
muzycian wrote:Within the MuSynth patches you can't use vst plugs.
Mmm... I can add a rack to the MuSynth MPA and add VSTs to that, though, and the effects in the rack then process what's passed to them, so that's pretty special. If unintended

Indeed unintended, you found a nice way

Technically it indeed works, no problem.

I could even add "Add vst plugin" to the MuSynth editor, for use after the Voice Out, thus as an effect processor.

But i would like to keep the MuSynth patches vst free, for reason of compatibility, stability etc...

Will think it thru, conceptually.

Just click the parameter display in the middle of the knobs. That lets you edit the parameter label
Aha!

That were Rapture and CM Vocoder, right?
Yep.

What do the "Load/Save xxx File" (xxx=Voice/MIDI/Audio/Plugin/MuSynth) do in the MPA? (Hmm... presets... But Voice/MIDI/Audio have no settings and Plugin just looks weird.)
Euh, can you email me a screenshot please. Not sure what you mean.
http://www.drealm.info/mu.lab/voice.png menu appears on right-click of Voice In plugin.
http://www.drealm.info/mu.lab/mux.png menu appears on right-click of MUX plugin.
The "Load" and "Save" options appear at the end. Similar menus, with "Voice" or "MUX" replaced by MIDI, Audio, Plugin or MuSynth when right-clicking the appropriate plugin in the MPA.
http://www.drealm.info/mu.lab/AddPlugin.png highlights the two "Plugin" options. The first one gives the "nothing to edit" message when double-clicked. The second gives http://www.drealm.info/mu.lab/plugin2.png

Yep, got it, will finetune these things towards beta B.

For now: please only use those load/save for the MuSynth and the MUX.

Note that the distributed beta is a "MU.LAB Free" and thus has a limit of 4 synths.
Gotcha...

Oops, i see something now: the voice in/out plugs should not appear in the mux! they're n.a. there. Will be finetuned in beta b.
Ah, right. Sneaky suspicion there's more of those around

Maybe once beta b is there (soon) with a first collection of finetunings, we can re-focus on this.

Bonteburg · Post by **Bonteburg** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:40 pm

muzycian wrote:
What do you mean with "it takes long"?

I just checked loading a waveform into a WFT Oscillator (WFT=WaveFormTable) and that's pretty instant, both on windows as osx.

Or do you mean that navigating takes long..?

Not sure what you mean

Jo, never mind that - I have a sneaking suspicion it's me haveing an oldish and slow disk. Takes 20 seconds or so for the waves folder to open, once I've navigated there of course.
That said, it's a lot faster in Logic.

Which crazy loop do you mean?

Can you record this with a mic or something and email me an mp3, maybe then i get a clue.

http://bonteburg.panicnow.net/MULAB_Ses ... 020012.mp3
should give you an idea. I just loaded a percussion sample (no internal loop points). It just seems to listen in on any given sample regardless of when it starts and loop a tiny part of it.

-The strange hanging / endless note problem is still there.
You know, the OSX specific vsti-host one?
Playing chords is a big no-no.

Marco, didn't we have this issue in the past?
Didn't we resolve this?
I'm not sure, it's some time ago...
Please refresh my ram

Nah, we just settled on that it must be my computer, because apparently it didn't happen on your end? The strange thing about this is it happens in Tracktion and Luna/Mu.Lab, but not in Renoise, which is also a VSTi host.

Mmm, not sure about this one. What do you exactly mean with "even if they are activated in the little box on the top right". Can you please send a screenshot.

http://bonteburg.panicnow.net/no_keyboard_action.tiff

That's the situation where I can't seem to get my keyboard to play a synth (muSynth in this case).
Note that the sequence plays just fine. Also, the little keyboard next to the piano roll works OK.

RE: Synth limit, not very possible, because I had less than four of them loaded. I'm going to give it another test. If it's some kind of bug, it would be a pretty random one, making it hard to repeat at the drop of a hat.

Marco

muzycian · Post by **muzycian** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:02 pm

Bonteburg wrote:
muzycian wrote:
What do you mean with "it takes long"?

I just checked loading a waveform into a WFT Oscillator (WFT=WaveFormTable) and that's pretty instant, both on windows as osx.

Or do you mean that navigating takes long..?

Not sure what you mean
Jo, never mind that - I have a sneaking suspicion it's me haveing an old and slow disk. Takes 20 seconds or so for the waves folder to open, once I've navigated there of course.

Ah, now i know what you mean.

I remeber something about lists getting a bit slower when they're very long, but 20 secs is really out of range

I'll take note and do a focus on it asap.

Which crazy loop do you mean?
Can you record this with a mic or something and email me an mp3, maybe then i get a clue.
http://bonteburg.panicnow.net/MULAB_Ses ... 020012.mp3
should give you an idea. I just loaded a percussion sample (no internal loop points).

The waveforms in the WFT are not played as normal samples.
So i guess you have loaded a very short percussion sound and played it at a very low pitch.
Right?

If so, then that's a normal result.
If you think this is something else please email me the musession file and the wave file. thanks.

-The strange hanging / endless note problem is still there.
You know, the OSX specific vsti-host one?
Playing chords is a big no-no.

Marco, didn't we have this issue in the past?
Didn't we resolve this?
I'm not sure, it's some time ago...
Please refresh my ram
Nah, we just settled on that it must be my computer, because apparently it didn't happen on your end? The strange thing about this it happens in Tracktion and Luna/Mu.Lab, but not in Renoise, which is also a VSTi host.

Ah yes, i remember.

Any chance to record this, and send me the audio + musession.
Maybe i can try again to find some thing..?

Mmm, not sure about this one. What do you exactly mean with "even if they are activated in the little box on the top right". Can you please send a screenshot.
http://bonteburg.panicnow.net/no_keyboard_action.tiff

That's the situation where I can't seem to get my keyboard to play a synth (muSynth in this case).
Note that the sequence plays just fine. Also, the little keyboard next to the piano roll works OK:

RE: Synth limit, not very possible, because I had less than four of them loaded. I'm going to give it another test. If it's some kind of bug, it would be a pretty fandom one, making it hard to repeat at the drop of a hat.

Thanks for the screenshot! That helps.

At first sight everything indeed seems ok:

-> You have a midi in device.
-> A part is selected => its target (the MuSynth) is focussed
-> So the MuSynth should receive the midi
-> And you have a voice in -> oscillator -> voice out -> audio out: that's perfect
-> And i'm sure you have your audio out device selected in the Audio Setup.

And with this musession you don't hear any sound from the musynth when playing notes?

muzycian · Post by **muzycian** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:25 pm

pljones wrote:The second gives http://www.drealm.info/mu.lab/plugin2.png

Ok, also fixed the graphical glitch with the button.

Thanks to this screenshot!

Bonteburg · Post by **Bonteburg** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:01 am

Oh I see!
That's normal behaviour then, never mind that.
But hey: Come to think of it wouldn't it be cool to be able to turn it off? To have that quick and dirty sampler option.
But that's more of a feature request.

I'll try and recreate the neverending note thing with a simple MuSynth patch and DX10 is that ok?

Marco