learning zebra sound design

[metajack]

I'm a new zebra owner and trying to learn some more things about sound design and zebra. I figured I would start by copying sounds to learn how they are done.

I'm trying to copy the Synth Brass II patch from my JX-3P as a start. Here's me playing (badly) the axel foley theme on the (out of tune) JX-3P:

http://tal.chesspark.com/~jack/sounds/j ... brass2.mp3

Here's me playing my first attempt at a zebra patch for this:

http://tal.chesspark.com/~jack/sounds/z ... brass2.mp3

And here is the actual patch:

http://tal.chesspark.com/~jack/sounds/synthbrass2.h2p


I can't seem to get much closer than this. Perhaps some of you will have some ideas.

[chicken muffin]

i hate to say it, but i think your way over your head as far as really learning zebra is concerned. im talking designing your own sounds from scratch. dont listen to people who say you can start learning on any synth.

its true you can, but it will be very very difficult. too many people only know there synths through the factory and third party patches. i learned sound design through synth1. i mastered, and then moved onto a new synth. that being firebird but you can learn on anything as long as its an easy synth to learn.

the more complicated the synth you choose, the harder it will be to master. i say pick one synth that being zebra (but you can choose any synth) and slowly learn how to reverse engineer others patches. just be aware that by picking zebra to learn on, it will be quite a long journey before get to your destination. id say rather then learn on zebra you learn on an easier synth and take what you leanred from that to use with zebra

[ckatrun411]

don't ever let anybody tell you that something is hard to do. or can't be done.

[ckatrun411]

I'm a new zebra owner and trying to learn some more things about sound design and zebra. I figured I would start by copying sounds to learn how they are done.

I'm trying to copy the Synth Brass II patch from my JX-3P as a start. Here's me playing (badly) the axel foley theme on the (out of tune) JX-3P:

http://tal.chesspark.com/~jack/sounds/j ... brass2.mp3

Here's me playing my first attempt at a zebra patch for this:

http://tal.chesspark.com/~jack/sounds/z ... brass2.mp3

And here is the actual patch:

http://tal.chesspark.com/~jack/sounds/synthbrass2.h2p


I can't seem to get much closer than this. Perhaps some of you will have some ideas.

I don't own the zebra.... but, the axle foley theme, couldnt be more than some nice saws, tuned against eachother, and some rev, and delay...

does zeb have a spread function like predator? I would look for something like that!!

[bluedad]

the more complicated the synth you choose, the harder it will be to master.

good grief! zebra can be as simple or as complex as you want to make it.

[Urs]

I think the two examples are close enough to say that you're on a good way.

I havn't had a look at the preset yet, but I'd recommend to

- add a bit more envelope to the filter cutoff as the original sound is more brilliant

- make envelope release times a bit longer, as Zebra's envelopes can brutally close among a few samples, which often creates clicks when you lift a key

- I think the JX-3P patch has a slightly faster attack, too

#--

Another great starting point is to master Zebralette first. Zebra's strength are its oscillators (which btw. have had spread and stuff long before others were in alpha state), and Zebralette is basically just one Osc with envelopes, lfos and fx. No filters!

IMHO sound designers and synth engineers have mostly relied on filters to shape the sound, while the actual source - the oscillator - was widely neglected. Attempts to break this pardigm (FM-Yamaha, Additive-Kawai) have mostly proven not-so-user-friendly or not-so-expressive (sampling). But now that we have computers and flexible visualization techniques, complex possibilities can be made available in an intuitive manner.

A journey through Zebralette's factory presets should make clear what this is about.

And then, of course there are the new Factory OSC settings which are a great starting point to all sorts of classic sounds. They load in Zebralette as well as in Zebra.

Cheers,

Urs


P.S.: This patch of course has nothing to do with the original Axel F sound from the Jupiter 8 - which was based on unison oscillators /w pulse waves rather than sawtooths.

[metajack]

- add a bit more envelope to the filter cutoff as the original sound is more brilliant

- make envelope release times a bit longer, as Zebra's envelopes can brutally close among a few samples, which often creates clicks when you lift a key

- I think the JX-3P patch has a slightly faster attack, too

Thanks, I'll give this a try. This is exactly the kind of help I was looking for. The filter cutoff is mostly what I am having trouble with. It seems to be the key to the sound, but I can't seem to get it quite right. Usually when I increase it, it starts to sound like the filter opens too much. I will play around with it some more and see if I can get closer.

Another great starting point is to master Zebralette first.

...

A journey through Zebralette's factory presets should make clear what this is about.

And then, of course there are the new Factory OSC settings which are a great starting point to all sorts of classic sounds. They load in Zebralette as well as in Zebra.

I'll play with this today. I spent last night reading a few threads here about the various ways you can make pulse waves and PWM in zebra. Just reading about how various people use zebra to create very basic and typical oscillators, one can learn a lot

P.S.: This patch of course has nothing to do with the original Axel F sound from the Jupiter 8 - which was based on unison oscillators /w pulse waves rather than sawtooths.

I got the JX-3P as a present from my parents when I was really young and just starting into computer music (I had asked for a midi keyboard to manipulate sound on my Gravis UltraSound card). For some reason whenever I dialed up this patch, it reminded me of the Axel F theme, and so those two have been stuck in my brain ever since.

[politcat]

also, get peter gorges' book "programming synthesizers"

[tylenol]

You might check out how some of mkastrup's synth horn patches work, I think that is where I would start if I wanted to do this. Presumably there's some in the oldschool set (I don't have it myself), but if you don't have that I know there's a few in a teaser for that package linked somewhere in the voluminous presets thread. The specific patches I have in mind are called "MK Brassoletto ARP" and "MK Brassy Key". They aren't the same kind of synth horn sound you are going for but they are close enough that they'd probably be helpful. I don't have any particular suggestions since I'm not a big synth horn person myself .

[tylenol]

the more complicated the synth you choose, the harder it will be to master.

good grief! zebra can be as simple or as complex as you want to make it.

This is very true, it is extremely easy to set up a 2-osc 2-filter configuration that is no more or less complex than the kind of things that get suggested as learning synths. Especially with the new factory osc settings; try "Tri-Saw-Pulse" to give a typical set of oscillator choices.

[mkastrup]

I can't seem to get much closer than this. Perhaps some of you will have some ideas.

Your on the right track for that JX3P brass sound but it need a more open Cut of Frequency and a tad more Resonance.

If none of the filters do the job then its time to try stack filters.

Like this

OSC 1 --> VCF 1 LP12 --> VCF 2 LP12

or perhaps VCF 1 LP 6 --> VCF 2 LP12

anyway, lots of filters to play around with, you could even stack 3 filters.

OSC 1 --> VCF 1 LP 6 --> VCF 2 LP12 --> VCF 3 LP 12

etc....

cheers

/Michael

[metajack]

Your on the right track for that JX3P brass sound but it need a more open Cut of Frequency and a tad more Resonance.

Thanks. Between Urs' and your advice I managed to to solve it with just the one filter. I'm actually quite impressed with both how well Zebra can accomplish this task and the fact that I was able to pull it off with a little help. Now I will try another patch on the JX-3P that is a bit more interesting (Pulsar for those who have one).

If none of the filters do the job then its time to try stack filters.

What is the benefit of stacking filters in this way? Is there a good example in the preset bank (old or new) which demonstrates this?

I assume the falloff will be 24db at the end for two 12db stacked filters, but that you can get a 12db falloff in the parts where they don't line up exactly? Are the frequencies before the cutoff point affected much? I'll have to play with this.

Here's the final Zebra patch: http://tal.chesspark.com/~jack/sounds/synthbrass2-3.h2p