question about keys and scales

[evileye]

do these mean the same thing? key and scales
if someone says they are working in A major does that mean they are using A major scale?
just a little cobfused by the termanology
thanks for any help

[llatham]

do these mean the same thing? key and scales
if someone says they are working in A major does that mean they are using A major scale?
just a little cobfused by the termanology
thanks for any help

The Scale of C Major and the Key of C major are not the same thing.

HOWEVER, it's very likely that if someone writes something in C Major, they are going to use a C Major scale to create melodies from, and so on. Likewise, it's likely that if someone uses a C major scale, they'll end up writing a piece in C Major.

But, we still make a distinction between the two. For example, we could be in the key of A minor, and you could be playing chords in A minor, and I could play a C Major scale over that. Since the notes C D E F G A B are also in A minor, everyone will hear it all as A minor, but in my mind, I'm still playing C Major.

Looking at key and scale as the same thing - while appropriate in some situations - is a little "dumbed down" considering how music actually works. I feel it's better to think of a scale as simply a "listing" of the main notes in a key. It's kind of like the alphabet - we don't really "use" the alphabet to write things. The alphabet is more of a representation of the letters we do use, put in some order.

In a key, we use 7 primary notes. In C Major, it's A B C D E F G. I could list those in any way, but as long as the music still drives towards C being the goal, or tonic, we tend to hear it as the KEY of C major. So, in order to help reinforce that, usually the note content of C major is put in ascending order, starting on C, to make C D E F G A B (C).

You *could* write a piece in C Major, but use melody notes from G Major. This is possible, but unless handled very carefully is likely to be counterproductive. So instead, to make life easy, most people will choose a C Major scale to build their melodies and harmonies from, and this is going to help, rather than hinder, the piece sound like it's in the key of C Major. However, one still needs to do something to make C the most important note so we hear it as the "key" of C major.

So let's say that a Scale is a listing of notes, in ascending order. Some scales, such as a Major Scale, represent the primary notes in a Major Key as well.

A Key is a concept that not only includes some primary notes that can be listed as a scale, but also includes the idea that one of those notes is more important than the others, and will serve as the ultimate goal to which melodies and/or harmonies will progress, or come to rest on.

HTH,
LSL

[evileye]

thankyou for the time to write this reply. It's helped

ok heres another
how many scales do people use in a track?
thanks

[tonAP]

how many scales do people use in a track?

Oh c'mon evileye are u serious about it? I'm pretty sure you know it doesn't make any sense: it's like asking how many chords do people use in a track?
There are jazz patterns where the soloist uses various modal-tonal scale-fragments in a single phrase!

Also: how many colors do painters use in a painting?

[nuffink]

The key of a piece (or section) is defined by the the tonic triad. The scale of a piece (or section) is defined by the notes used.

If a piece is in the key of C Minor it's tonal centre (to which it seeks to resolve) is a C Minor chord. It can use the scale of C Melodic Minor, C Harmonic Minor, C Natural Minor or a slew of other, more exotic scales which all seek to resolve to a C minor triad.

...is one way of looking at it.

[llatham]

thankyou for the time to write this reply. It's helped

ok heres another
how many scales do people use in a track?
thanks

As many as they want to. It's music, you can do what you want.

Some simple songs use one key, and one scale throughout. Some Jazz stays in one key, but soloists improvising over the chord progressions may use many different scales/modes. In a blues, some players use one pentatonic/blues scale throughout, others change with the basic harmony and use three. So it all depends on the style, how complex you want things to get, and so on and so forth.

LSL

[evileye]

ive been making music for only 4 years and thought a bit of music theroy would help me to make my music a bit better.
im interested in making house music and just wounderd how much theory i needed to know to get by?

[llatham]

ive been making music for only 4 years and thought a bit of music theroy would help me to make my music a bit better.
im interested in making house music and just wounderd how much theory i needed to know to get by?

Musicians making popular music often get by with little theory at all. They simply learn everything by ear, and write everything by ear, and in many cases, can't communicate to other musicians what they are doing. So I'd say, while you learn "some" theory just by doing, you don't really need any formal theory training to make many types of music.

However, consider this: many musical styles come and go - suppose that in ten years from now, a new style of music arises that you're interested in, and it's much more theoretically involved than a current style - if you've spent ten years learning no theory, you're going to be out of luck when this happens.

I grew up playing Rush, which is technically and theoretically demanding. I can now play Green Day if I need to. But, if I had grown up only learning to play Green Day, I would be that I'd have to learn a lot to play Dream Theater, or even Tool, etc.

You can always learn theory and not use it, but if you've never learned it, it's kind of hard to use to your advantage!

HTH
LSL