Help me with goa melodies

[Rottweiler]

if sy can point me in the rigth direction....

i have a very little musical education only, but at least more or less i got good ears

i really really like the complex melodies of this kind of music:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=PGmeXy1cxr4

listen from 6:00 to the end... awesome


any advices appreciated

thx

[Optomadic]

If I had to guess I'd say an arpeggiator all the way for the patterns, filter envelopes (built in or external) and reverb. Didn't listen to the whole thing and this style is kind of ridged so its not that hard to emulate.

I'd say a vsti with built in arp, pattern sequencer for lfo etc filter and reverbs (plus other common effects) should do it for you.

[Rottweiler]

dont get me wrong, i can even recreate this whole song only by memory.

i just always want to find a deeper understanding of things.

now: insteda of fuckin with the keyboard, i want to compose, with rules.

[nuffink]

That's f**king horrific. No amount of theory is going to help you be that bad, it takes a massive lack of talent and an arpeggiator.

[Rottweiler]

That's f**king horrific. No amount of theory is going to help you be that bad, it takes a massive lack of talent and an arpeggiator.

i think its got energy and trippy. i like that

[mystran]

Actually, creating those is pretty easy even without an arpeggiator. I don't find that particular example very interesting, but anyway, you pick a suitable scale for the mood your into (well or just use the same as everybody else) and then pick a note around which you bounce up and down semi-randomly on the scale (not all variations will sound good but many will).

If there's a trick involved, it's typical to repeat some basic motive over and over, with only minor variations.. but usually the motive is made not to match exact number of beats, such that it moves from one part of the beat to another, which makes it slightly curious to follow, especially when both the beat and the motive itself are simple. In the most simple form, you take something like a 303 pattern, make it something like 9 or 11 notes long, and then just repeat it over and over on top of a 16 notes long 4/4 beat. As long as the pattern itself is sufficiently "complex" sounding...

Another thing that works is to start with a base pattern that basicly hovers around some note, but then make random excursions futher away (both up and down would work, but up will typically get you more bang for the bug if you're after trippy things). Just make sure that these trips don't occur too deterministically (say always at 3rd beat) and they'll appear quite complex.

Then again, what do I know about goa trance (the stuff I've done is probably worst ever).


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Oh and the other possibility is write some basic theme, then load it up in piano-roll and invoke you're sequencers arpeggiation features.. throw in something like octave jumps or whatever sounds "more or less like it" then when you're done, clean up the parts that sound particularly bad...

[HiEnergy]

I prefer using the phrygian mode when doing those typical psytrance melodies.
Just try a weighted random walk around the center tone in phrygian mode. Those often give a lot of energy and a kind of uplift to your melody.

[nuffink]

I prefer using the phrygian mode when doing those typical psytrance melodies.
Just try a weighted random walk around the center tone in phrygian mode. Those often give a lot of energy and a kind of uplift to your melody.

How does that work? Say I want a melody in E Phrygian, how is it different from a melody in C Ionian?

[HiEnergy]

How does that work? Say I want a melody in E Phrygian, how is it different from a melody in C Ionian?

This just means that you'll center around E instead of C. And the first scale step (E->F) is a semitone step.
A typical melody could e.g. just consist of a sequence of E-D-E-F-E repeated ad nauseum... You could get wacky and throw a G into the mix every now and then. With a slowly opening filter and some EG->filter/EG decay modulation this will sound very goa-ish...
It's really as simple as that.

[HobbyCore]

I prefer using the phrygian mode when doing those typical psytrance melodies.
Just try a weighted random walk around the center tone in phrygian mode. Those often give a lot of energy and a kind of uplift to your melody.

How does that work? Say I want a melody in E Phrygian, how is it different from a melody in C Ionian?

Phyrgian sounds way cooler than ionian.

[nuffink]

How does that work? Say I want a melody in E Phrygian, how is it different from a melody in C Ionian?

This just means that you'll center around E instead of C. And the first scale step (E->F) is a semitone step.
A typical melody could e.g. just consist of a sequence of E-D-E-F-E repeated ad nauseum... You could get wacky and throw a G into the mix every now and then. With a slowly opening filter and some EG->filter/EG decay modulation this will sound very goa-ish...
It's really as simple as that.

That's rubbish I'm afraid. It assumes that the starting note of a melody defines its mode.

[Rock Hardbuns]

dont get me wrong, i can even recreate this whole song only by memory.

i just always want to find a deeper understanding of things.

now: insteda of fuckin with the keyboard, i want to compose, with rules.

Historically, drone music was usually all about improvisation, and if I was in a sarcastic mode I'd say it was sort of a sport where the musicians tried to make the drone interesting. So, rules shmouls.

In trance*, melody is usually quite secondary (except in the most watered down varieties) and the focus is on creating an interesting, dense and chaotic sound scape with a driving rhythm. So do what you need to with the melodies in order to create that. You are not trying to hook people with a pretty doodle, and given the drone bass, you have little chance of doing that anyway.

( *And as far as I can tell Goa is basically the same as the original trance format, except with more reverb maybe. )

[HiEnergy]

Phyrgian sounds way cooler than ionian.

Ionian is boring. Phrygian is much more 'unexpected' and has that rather uplifting touch.
Phrygian melodies go really well with fifths instead of full chords btw.

That's rubbish I'm afraid. It assumes that the starting note of a melody defines its mode.

It IS rubbish. Indeed. It's over-simplified. So are the melodies in goa/psy/whatever trance. But it works.

[HobbyCore]

Phyrgian sounds way cooler than ionian.

Ionian is boring. Phrygian is much more 'unexpected' and has that rather uplifting touch.
Phrygian melodies go really well with fifths instead of full chords btw.

So what you're saying is if the song is in the key of Cmajor (ionian), you'd play a C phrygian or that you'd play an E phrygian?

[Rock Hardbuns]

I prefer using the phrygian mode when doing those typical psytrance melodies.
Just try a weighted random walk around the center tone in phrygian mode. Those often give a lot of energy and a kind of uplift to your melody.

How does that work? Say I want a melody in E Phrygian, how is it different from a melody in C Ionian?

Given that we are talking about drone music.. I.e a single bass note that never changes, the difference is in whether the drone is C or E.