MFilter Feature Requests

[Pat2070]

Ez

Haven't even used this yet, but looking at the pics and reading the feature set got me thinking about improvements.

One feature that would be really good would be the ability to assign multiple controls to one control for automation & modulation purposes. This would allow the user to set up various filters with independent settings which could then be changed all at once from just the one slider.

Essentially, this would function like the x/y pad on many synths, or the Combinator controls in Propellerhead Reason. Allowing up to seven controls minimum to be controlled by this 'performance' control would allow for far more extreme and interesting patches to be constructed.

If this control was also available as a modulation destination, that would be perfect.

In terms of the GUI, I think their could be four of them, each placed under o above the four modulators.

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Separately, I was thinking that ADSR style envelopes would also be useful. These could be triggered in two ways, either via a volume based threshold (for typical envelop following) or via midi. You already have the codes necessary for the threshold comparitor and ADSR envelopes from your compression and drum plugins. (How easy it would be to implement I don't know...)

GUI wise, I would see this sitting either by the modulation buttons, or above the filter graphic display by the dry/wet & gain controls.

Thanks for reading..

Pat

[MeldaProduction]

Ez

Haven't even used this yet, but looking at the pics and reading the feature set got me thinking about improvements.

One feature that would be really good would be the ability to assign multiple controls to one control for automation & modulation purposes. This would allow the user to set up various filters with independent settings which could then be changed all at once from just the one slider.

Essentially, this would function like the x/y pad on many synths, or the Combinator controls in Propellerhead Reason. Allowing up to seven controls minimum to be controlled by this 'performance' control would allow for far more extreme and interesting patches to be constructed.

If this control was also available as a modulation destination, that would be perfect.

In terms of the GUI, I think their could be four of them, each placed under o above the four modulators.

I'm kinda confused. You said x/y pad, but 7 parameters together, so I'm really not sure what you mean. Can you give me some example on the usage?

Separately, I was thinking that ADSR style envelopes would also be useful. These could be triggered in two ways, either via a volume based threshold (for typical envelop following) or via midi. You already have the codes necessary for the threshold comparitor and ADSR envelopes from your compression and drum plugins. (How easy it would be to implement I don't know...)

GUI wise, I would see this sitting either by the modulation buttons, or above the filter graphic display by the dry/wet & gain controls.

Thanks for reading..

Pat

So it would be similar to modulators, except it wont continually modulate a parameter, but rather follow certain envelope when triggered, right?

[Pat2070]

Heya Vojtech

Sorry for the confusion...

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Re: the first idea.

The idea was to have one 'master control' that other controls may be tied to. By modulating the master control, any of the other controls tied to the master control will also be modulated.

This has several applications, both practical and creative. The most practical use is that more controls can be be modulated at once, as MFilter currently only offers four modulators.

I'll also run through a few of the creative ideas a master control could enable.

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In the first example, I want to maintain a fixed distance between the cut-off frequency of each band whilst I sweep the cut-off frequencies of all the bands.

I set band 1 to Low pass with a -6dB slope.
I set band 2 to notch with the frequency cutoff 1/4 of the way along the slope of band 1.
I set band 3 to notch with the frequency cutoff 1/2 way along the slope of band 1.
I set band 4 to peak, with +24dB gain and the frequency cut-off 3/4 of the way along the slope of band 1.

With all the frequency cutoff controls tied to a master control, I can sweep my funky filter shape and still maintain the same distance/relationship between the frequency cut-off points of each filter band.

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Another more creative example again. This example gives rise to the MorphEQ I mentioned from Vember Audio Short Circuit.

I set the following:

Band 1 cut-off freq (min range = 440Hz / max range = 880Hz)
Band 1 gain (min range -5dB / max range = +12dB)
Band 2 Q (min range = 0.25 / max range = 1)
Band 3 cutoff freq (min range = 4000Hz / max range = 1000Hz)
etc etc

As each of those controls is tied to the master control, as I sweep the master control, the filter shape changes between the minimum and maximum points set for each of the controls tied to the master control.

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A final example would be extremely practical, although I'm unsure of the math behind its funtioning.

In this example, I want to reinforce (or attenuate) all the harmonics of a given fundemental frequency. I have the cut-off frequency of multiple peak filters all tied to a master control.

If the fundemental frequency is at 220hz, then I need to set up peak filters at 440Hz, 880Hz, 1760Hz etc etc. Great, but what if the fundemental frequency changes? The frequency of all the harmonics will also change.

A really great feature to add would be the ability to scale the distance in frequency between each cutoff point as the master control is swept up or down the frequency chart.

With multiple 'master controls', one could assign filter cutoff frequency to one master control with the distance between each cut-off point scaling by a ratio set by the user, while a second master control sets the gain of each filter at once.

This way, for any given fundamental frequency, one could always have the ability to boost or attenuate the harmoncs.

Taking the idea of scaling further, allowing the scaling of any control tied to a master control would be both practical and creative.

For instance, using the example above, one could set the gain to change more for lower frequenies than higher ones...




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The best way I can think of demonstrating what I mean is to check out both the Combinator front panel controls in Propellerhead Reason and the MorphEQ in Short Circuit. Alternatively, check out iZotpe Spectron here ---> http://www.kvraudio.com/get/636.html for the MorphEQ example, Perhaps checking out the demos of all the software mentioned would help clarify things?

The only reason I mentioned X/Y pads is that the user is able to assign and modulate multiple controls at once.

Hope all that makes sense!!

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Separately, I was thinking that ADSR style envelopes would also be useful.

So it would be similar to modulators, except it wont continually modulate a parameter, but rather follow certain envelope when triggered, right?

Exactly.

This would allow for one shot modulations when triggered via either midi or audio. Thus, I could pass a synth through MFilter and either use the midi notes of the synth to trigger the filter movements on MFilter, or a sidechained audio signal.


If the envelope is triggered via sidechained audio, it becomes an 'envelope follower'.

The functioning of envelope followers is very simple. When the amplitude of an input signal exceeds the threshold set by the user, the envelope is triggered into action.

Compressors often have sidechain inputs so that compression can be triggered by alternative sound sources to that actually being compressed. Triggering an ADSR envelope via a sidechain can lead to lots of creative effects too. On MFilter, the ADSR envelope could potentially be tied to all the same destinations as the modulators allow currently.

As mentioned, you already have the code for the compressor threshold trigger and sidechain inputs, plus the code for the ADSR envelopes. I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to convert a threshold level exceed message into an envelope 'gate on' message that triggers an ADSR envelope into action on MFilter. [/color]

An alternative to this is to allow a 'one shot' mode for the existing modulators. The modulation only follows the modulator shape once, and doesn't repeat/cycle. As the modulators already allow for custom shapes, this could be far more flexible than a traditional ADSR envelope. For extra flexibility, an onset delay control would also be cool! (much like a HADSR)

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I hope I've managed to explain things a little better?

Pat

[MeldaProduction]

Whau exhaustive .
Ok, so now

AD1)
Basically this would a new "parameter" controlling other parameters when changed, right? It would have a (un)limited set of target parameters with all the settings each modulator have (concerning attached parameter), that's it.

I thought it would be enough to add multiple parameters for each modulator. But this is probably more universal, since you could also map a MIDI controller (or automate it) to it.

Anyway is that right?

AD2)
I guess we can just improve the modulators as you suggested. The newest version should have "reset modulator on midi" feature, so if we make the modulators "non-repetitive" as you suggested it would be it, right?

You would make the modulators go just once and attach a MIDI to it and that's it. Controlling using side-chain - this isn't such a big deal except the VST shitmess . We are now using VST 2.4, where sidechain is made using 4-channel input, which is however not really easy-to-use in Cubase 4 and later, since stupid Steinberg wants use to go to VST 3, but several hosts wouldn't allow that I guess, so this is kinda complicated. So I'd like to wait with this a little until most hosts are VST 3 compatible. Then we can switch to VST 3 (which is more work with almost nothing to win ) and implement the side-chains for our plugs.

[Pat2070]

Moar work for minimal gain??! VST 3 wins!!! hehe

Anyways, I think ya get the picture.

Any and all of the above would be great!

Btw, did you read my third example for the master controller scaling? (I edited the post above to contain it, presumably whilst you were replying to my post... I'm unsure if you saw that bit yet? (If not, do, cuz it would be very practical for mastering purposes)

Thanks for reading!

Pat

[MeldaProduction]

Oukey doukey

About the harmonics - I already though that it may be interesting to add "harmonics" parameter to each eq band. Say from 0%-100%, and it would add virtual bands at harmonics with slowly decending (or possibly even ascening for say 200%) gain. So if you'd use Band 1 as a peak filter at 200Hz +8dB and set 50% harmonics, it would also create the same filter at 400Hz +4dB, and 800Hz +2dB etc. Limited/constant/configurable count of harmonics. This would solve the case I think too, right?

Nevertheless I think if you set the modulators correctly, the frequency is already manipulated logirthmically, so it should follow the harmonics, hopefully .

[Pat2070]

Oukey doukey

About the harmonics - I already though that it may be interesting to add "harmonics" parameter to each eq band. Say from 0%-100%, and it would add virtual bands at harmonics with slowly decending (or possibly even ascening for say 200%) gain. So if you'd use Band 1 as a peak filter at 200Hz +8dB and set 50% harmonics, it would also create the same filter at 400Hz +4dB, and 800Hz +2dB etc. Limited/constant/configurable count of harmonics. This would solve the case I think too, right?

Nevertheless I think if you set the modulators correctly, the frequency is already manipulated logirthmically, so it should follow the harmonics, hopefully .

What you've mentioned here would be fantastic!

I guess you're right. Using the depth control on the modulators could (although my math and logic is awful) set the harmonics as you say.

But if there is an easier and better way, then it must be sought!

Pat

[Pat2070]

Oh, and adding multiple modulation targets to the modulators wouldn't go amiss, even if you were to add 'master controllers'...!

The more power & the more options, the better imo



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At least four master controllers would be useful. As you said, they could then be assigned to midi controllers, automated in a sequencer or assigned to a modulator.

Another four modulators could also be handy, especially for the MFilter...

[MeldaProduction]

Well, oukey doukey. Now we are kinda busy with the Mac shitstuff, but soon .

[Pat2070]

haha, sure thing

[AL321]

I'm really looking forward to Mfilter. I've been using the EQ, and always thinking "argh, if only this had the good old Melda modulators on it...". Now along comes Mfilter! Just perfect.

My only concern is that on some of these plugs, the modulators have a kind of zipper-effect in Sonar, making them of limited use to me. But it's weird, because the modulation on the main gui (vibrato, tremelo etc) sounds fine, but the modulators sound glitchy and zippy (Different code?). I only get this on some plugins though, not all, so i'm hoping Mfilter will be one of the ok ones.

Couple of requests while i'm here then:
Would be nice if we could assign a modulator to more than one parameter, so we can use one automation lane to make numerous changes. I think Pat may have mentioned something like that though.

Would also be nice if Melda compressors also had modulators on them! Then we could create manual sidechain effects in hosts that don't work well with sidechaining.

Anyway, thanks for the great plugs. I would hate to be without them, now i've started using them.

[MeldaProduction]

Thanks!

The "zipper noise" is caused by "block-by-block" modulation. Imagine you are modulating gain, you process 256 samples with gain +0dB and next 256 samples with +1dB. Obviously on the border of the frames will be a "step". Unfortunately there is only one good solution for this - sample-by-sample processing, but that would be ultra-hard on CPU. Moreover for some parameters even this is not good enough - for example when you modulate vibrato depth, you are actually jumping between samples and that must necessarily create zipper noise and samples-by-sample processing could even make this more pronounced.

For most parameters it is usually fine, but I didn't make a list of those problematic ones. In MFilter it is mostly fine, except "band enable" (and gain of course).

Well, modulators do not make miracles, yet

[Pat2070]

This plugin is immense!!

You've truly brought it up to Melda creative gold standard imo!

I'll send you some presets later this week

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Being picky, I have some more FRs

Being able to double click and enter the value of any controller numerically would be useful.

Further to this, the ability to enter the same value for multiple fields at once would be useful. This could work by using the new harmonics selector process. Have a numerical entry field with 6 radio buttons corresponding with the relevant controls. To enter the same value for fields one, three and five, we would tick the first, third & fifth radio buttons etc...

Separately, I find the LFO's on all the Melda plugs aren't fast enough... I usually have to resort to synced LFO at 1/32 for really fast modulations, but this is still to slow. Maybe a top frequency of 10kHz or 20kHz would be better?

As I'm asking for the earth, I may as well ask for more!

How about a frequency analyser built in to MFilter like APEQ or Imageline Parametric EQ?

Very nice work already Mr Vojtech!

Pat

[Pat2070]

Allowing the harmonics controls to be modulated would be extreme!

[MeldaProduction]

Being able to double click and enter the value of any controller numerically would be useful.

Try holding shift and clicking on the controller . And then press F1 (or ctrl+F1) with mouse on a control .

Further to this, the ability to enter the same value for multiple fields at once would be useful. This could work by using the new harmonics selector process. Have a numerical entry field with 6 radio buttons corresponding with the relevant controls. To enter the same value for fields one, three and five, we would tick the first, third & fifth radio buttons etc...

This would be kinda harder and I don't really know what you mean .

Separately, I find the LFO's on all the Melda plugs aren't fast enough... I usually have to resort to synced LFO at 1/32 for really fast modulations, but this is still to slow. Maybe a top frequency of 10kHz or 20kHz would be better?

I guess you mean 10Hz or 20Hz . Well, oukey doukey, bude there will have to be a "hi-speed" switch to ensure backward comatibility.

As I'm asking for the earth, I may as well ask for more!

How about a frequency analyser built in to MFilter like APEQ or Imageline Parametric EQ?

Very nice work already Mr Vojtech!

Thanks . You can ask for more obviously, but I can say no .
The frequency analyser - well this is a property of quite more eqpensive and powerful plugin - MAutoEqualizer

Anyway wait a little, I'll send you the new version with the faster modulators .