Zebra as plucked string modeller?

[FarleyCZ]

Hi evryone.

I've been playing with some AAS physical modeling VSTi demos. Actually friend did and it was pretty impressive.

But I have no money left to buy AAS or Collision for Ableton or something.
Then I told my self ... wait, I have Zebra, it can tons of stuff. So I played with it and figured out that Zebra's Comb module is kind of similar to what sound designers describe as karplus-strong string model. After a while few interesting sound came out, but it wasn't there yet.

Most radical problem is with the botom end. String (on acoustic guitar for example) is tight in bottom end, but noise does here that bottom end is really wide and "unpressent".

Seond question: How could I model a finger or hammer?
Third: Any ideas about a body?

If you know or did some presets with all that, I'd be thankfull.
There is lot of soud-designers here, I think this topic could be interesing.

[xh3rv]

Could be a good theme for the ZPC [e] Also, it would have the best name ever - "Hey, motherplucker!"

I think a big-picture technique might be, figure out what parts of the sound you want to extract from the comb, and layer with oscillators or FMOs. But there's a ton of ways this might end up, and different ways of amalgamating things (especially with FMOs or the XMF module).

Finger plucking to me suggests, square waves and and filter envelopes. Hammer sounds, maybe FMOs or oscillator wavetables with metallic harmonics (there are some in the patch lib).

For a body, a subtle, EQ'd reverb could be used.

There's a lot of stuff done in the factory bank or free banks from the U-He library which should be pretty instructive.

[aMUSEd]

You could also try Triplecheese which is based on comb oscs and has a wider variety of noise etc types. Several patches in my banks (on my site) include plucked sounds from guitars and harps to a spinet sound (although I wasn't aiming for slavish realism, just usable sounds)

[metajack]

Could be a good theme for the ZPC [e] Also, it would have the best name ever - "Hey, motherplucker!"

That sounds fun!

[mcnoone]

I do a lot of guitar and plucked string type sounds with Zebra.
It might help you to check out the guitar, or pluck folders,
from my presets (in sig), and examine to see how some like "Flat Back", were done.

I'm not good with the technical side of synthesis enough to help with that,
but I will add that experimenting with different settings, and studying the patches of different sound designers, and how they do things, is the best way to learn.

Hint: To get the comb filter to do more, you need to feed it good food.

Good luck with Zebra. It does take time, patience, and perseverance to "learn well".

[FarleyCZ]

No problem here with Zebra's UI. It's pretty clear. But that Comb filter is something new for me.

Interesting that fact about "feeding" it. I left integrated noise prefill unused and tried to send to combinator something "hand made". First fact which get me while to figure out: It must be short sound.
It sound more guitarish then just with prefill noise now. (Like e-guitar) Especially with Damp knob attahed to keyfol.

Could we say that "what you send to a comb filter defines character of the sound you're working with on filter itself?"

I'll try some body experiments.

Another idea o discuss: Synhesis of finger leaving a string on neck and "slide" may be?

[mcnoone]

Interesting that fact about "feeding" it.

That has more to with which modulations you use as targets for the comb filters, than with what (osc. fmo..etc) is being sent to it.
A simple example might be turning up 50%, the damp, then modulate (knob to right) with velocity (turned to the left 25 to 35%) or keyfollow even.
Feedback settings can be useful too.

Another idea o discuss: Synhesis of finger leaving a string on neck and "slide" may be?

That's possible, but has more to do with envelope settings.
Velocity settings applied to the envelope adsr.
Clicking the + sign on top right of envelope will bring that drop down, into view to use.
If you checkout my presets. Go to the ZebraCM 143 folder, and find
"gtr Wet Fretts MW.h2p"
That might be similar to what your talking about.
It's just done with the envelope velocity settings, where it can give you a sliding fret kinda thing.

[FarleyCZ]

Thx for explanation!
So first try of acoustic guitar model:
Three instances of Zebra.
First, the string: Osc with some handmade waveform (kind of blind shot ... something between square and sine), filter with envelope to shape a pluck I'm sending to comb. Then comb with dampening slighly mounted to keyfol. EQ'd a bit...
Second, release: Another blind shot: saw osc and noise (as a "random element") with enveloped filter. For that finger leaving. Haven't left there much highend, just "a gentle sound". Maped in Live to key off event.
Third: ... Try of modeling a slide! It's osc (pitch enveloped) with some spectroblend "nonsenses" containg few low harmonics and lot's of high harmonics. Done fewtimes, morphed and LFO'd for "randomizing it a little"
Then reverb for that body. I used Live's native becouse of that width and size knobs which works pretty nice.

What do you think of that?
http://farley-music.ic.cz/guitar_model_ ... review.mp3

Need suggestions how to get it better.
How to "Stabilize" it a bit at the first place. May be to mix it properly? Don't know. (lol, mix guitar ... sounds like job for blender ) Or compressor. It's actually used in second part of preview. Then waveform, structure, EQ suggestions... It sounds to ... muted.

Btw that preview: Tried it in mix ... I like it. At least as "acoustic-like" experimental sound. At the end I "unmounted" (lol ) body and ran it thru Amplitube. Interesting. I'll do a song from it!

[mcnoone]

What do you think of that?
http://farley-music.ic.cz/guitar_model_ ... review.mp3

Sounds great.
You don't need any outside fx to achieve that slight distortion added.
A shape module can do that with the right settings.

[Musical Gym]

AAS has Tassman 4 on special for $99 through August. I think you might be able to get it for $93 if you request a deal at Kelly's Music and Computers.

[FarleyCZ]

What do you think of that?
http://farley-music.ic.cz/guitar_model_ ... review.mp3

Sounds great.
You don't need any outside fx to achieve that slight distortion added.
A shape module can do that with the right settings.

Thanks. Yes, I know there is shaper inside, but I wanted test how it taste with mature qutar-amp-sim. Besides, it's 3 instances, I would have to use a Zebrify for it.

[FarleyCZ]

Oh I forgot to turn on a body reverb! There is next version. Sound's a bit more woody I thing. Also a bit EQ on quitar channel and tweaked a little Amplitube.
http://farley-music.ic.cz/guitar_model_ ... eview2.mp3
Tell me what you think and how to get it better plase.

[Howard]

Three instances of Zebra.

I think this is more than a bit over the top just for a plucked guitar sound! Use 3 lanes instead.

[FarleyCZ]

Three instances of Zebra.

I think this is more than a bit over the top just for a plucked guitar sound! Use 3 lanes instead.

I thought I was gonna do that, but I needed 3 different times to start synths. On note start, on release and on independent note for occasional slide. I didn't fund way to do that in one instance, so I used three.

[bmrzycki]

Three instances of Zebra.

I think this is more than a bit over the top just for a plucked guitar sound! Use 3 lanes instead.

I thought I was gonna do that, but I needed 3 different times to start synths. On note start, on release and on independent note for occasional slide. I didn't fund way to do that in one instance, so I used three.

You can assign 3 different envelopes to each lane in zebra. Then switch the envelope mode for env2 and env3 to a longer one like 10s or 4/1. Finally, right-click the first dial in the env and set it to delay.

Now you can set each env to have a starting offset from each note in. Use the mute buttons to solo your parts to make sure your delay times are right. Here's a screen-shot of a mock up I did to illustrate the point: