FL Studio has C5 root/midle note insted of C3. Why?

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
kmonkey
KVRAF
4072 posts since 17 Aug, 2004

Post Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:29 am

Out of pure curiosity - why FL Studio is the only one Host for which i know (i have Cubase 5, tried Sonar 8, Reaper, Energy XT, Podium, saw Logic on Mac, even Reason) which have root/middle note labeled as "C5" instead of "C3"? Root/middle note can be relative i know but i speak about some sort of standard which is accepted by 99% VST seq. developers. But not by 1%. That 1% is just FL Studio.

Note that my english is pretty awful but you'll get the point if you try to use FL Studio piano roll (which is apart from different note labeling best piano roll i ever experienced).

Even after two years of constant switching between Cubase and FL i never adopted to that. It seems very confusing for some music parts (orchestra, synth anything) and less confusing for other (drawing drums in piano roll).

Another example is VST. Some drum machines(instrument mapping), some Synths and Samplers which have that parameter on GUI. I always end confused when i see or set up C3 on VST but in FL Studio in piano roll i need to press/draw C5 instead of C3 to get C3 played actually.

In every other host i tested in my history if C3 is C3 then C3 is C3 in piano roll host and VST itself.

I mean it's not confusing for someone which just started that is ok. But for someone who used "c3" as root note for years it get annoying.


I asked Gol several years earlier but he told me that i should ask Cakewalk about it!! Yes that is right. Cakewalk?!?!! That was his answer in old forum. I am asking here, several years later, maybe someone pulled other answer from him.

I am also interested is there any way to change this? Friend told me that i can actually change that keyboard picture in FL Piano roll so i could probably change it somehow. Any tips?

User avatar
VariKusBrainZ
KVRAF
8880 posts since 16 Dec, 2002

Post Wed Oct 06, 2010 9:02 am

Because there is no standard :?

Meffy
Skunk Mod
21321 posts since 10 Jun, 2004 from Pony Pasture

Post Wed Oct 06, 2010 9:27 am

VariKusBrainZ wrote:Because there is no standard :?
Truth. The MIDI standard does not define which octave a given MIDI note number is associated with. It's up to implementors to decide, and not all decide alike. You can't say "this or that company is to blame," it's the MIDI standard's lack of definition that is at fault here.

monkeymanx
KVRian
723 posts since 12 Aug, 2005

Post Wed Oct 06, 2010 9:34 am

I wonder if you can change it in the settings. When you use it for drum sequencing as a vsti in cubase the drums all sound high pitched. Probably because of the different root notes.

kmonkey
KVRAF
4072 posts since 17 Aug, 2004

Post Wed Oct 06, 2010 12:40 pm

VariKusBrainZ wrote:Because there is no standard :?
I know i said it's relative? Is it so hard to understand this?

I asked does anybody know how it happened that of all existing VST Host/sequencers only FL Studio has different naming in piano roll while everyone else(literally) has THE SAME?

I asked did anybody get reasonable answer on this (in the meantime) and is there any way i can change it by myself. I've looked in FL Studio folder today and i see there is a lot of bmp files but i don't want to mess with that and end with buggy FL Studio. Most probably some FL Studio skin developer know something about this. Maybe tony can say?

ouroboros
KVRAF
7883 posts since 16 Apr, 2003 from -on the outside looking in

Post Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:00 pm

Most midi drum files I have work well when imported into the FL piano roll.
As far as a global setting, I don't think anything can be done, but of course in the channel itself, right clicking on the c3 resets the root there.
..what goes around comes around..

Meffy
Skunk Mod
21321 posts since 10 Jun, 2004 from Pony Pasture

Post Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:03 pm

Come on, ouroboros, admit it -- you cheated.

You RTFM, didn't you?

ouroboros
KVRAF
7883 posts since 16 Apr, 2003 from -on the outside looking in

Post Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:06 pm

...shhh...I have a reputation to protect...
..what goes around comes around..

Meffy
Skunk Mod
21321 posts since 10 Jun, 2004 from Pony Pasture

Post Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:07 pm

Oops. *paw over muzzle* Forry afout that.

kmonkey
KVRAF
4072 posts since 17 Aug, 2004

Post Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:16 pm

ouroboros wrote:Most midi drum files I have work well when imported into the FL piano roll.
As far as a global setting, I don't think anything can be done, but of course in the channel itself, right clicking on the c3 resets the root there.
Every MIDI file work in FL Studio for me. That is not my problem. And i am not talking about reseting the root note of the sample in channel i know for that.

What i want to say is that labeling is different. In other Host (really any other out there) when i press C3 on my hardware keyboard, C3 is pressed inside Host piano roll. It is labeled as C3 inside host piano roll etc. Thus i always start to draw notes on my C3 (when i am not using HW keyboard).

But when i press that same C3 key on my hardware controller then in FL Studio i see C5 as pressed. Thus when i want to draw notes which normally start in other host at C3 for FL Studio i must think in advance that i need to start to draw notes at C5 because if i start to draw them in FL Studio C3 they will sound two octaves lower.

Hmm...i guess i need to prepare screenshot because my english is quite bad..

EDIT: here is the screenshot. I created midi file in Cubase. Notice simple C3. Once when i export it as midi and import it to FL Studio - it is labeled as C5 ? That is what i am trying to say. Note that it will play correctly - i am saying that i have problem when drawing notes or assigning them etc. Because FL Studio piano roll has different labeling of notes. Hopefully i am more clear now about my problem (which is not any kind of showstoper for me).

Image
Image
Last edited by kmonkey on Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

AdmiralQuality
Banned
6657 posts since 10 Oct, 2005 from Toronto, Canada

Post Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:18 pm

Meffy wrote:
VariKusBrainZ wrote:Because there is no standard :?
Truth. The MIDI standard does not define which octave a given MIDI note number is associated with. It's up to implementors to decide, and not all decide alike. You can't say "this or that company is to blame," it's the MIDI standard's lack of definition that is at fault here.
The MIDI spec defines note 60 as middle C. This puts the lowest C (note=0) below subsonic at 16.352 Hz. What MIDI doesn't define is how to designate the octaves. Is the bottom octave named -1? 0? 1? "Subsubcontra"? MIDI doesn't know, nor care, what you call it.

Of course an instrument is free to produce whatever pitch it likes for a given note number, or no pitch at all, or to arbitrarily map sounds to keys (as in a drum map). But there's no ambiguity there, the MIDI note number is the note number. The only issue is what various hosts decide to name the octaves. Which I guess is the issue here. Purely cosmetic.

User avatar
Bronto Scorpio
KVRAF
5555 posts since 13 Feb, 2006 from Wiesmoor, Germany

Post Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:21 pm

kmonkey wrote:
ouroboros wrote:Most midi drum files I have work well when imported into the FL piano roll.
As far as a global setting, I don't think anything can be done, but of course in the channel itself, right clicking on the c3 resets the root there.
Every MIDI file work in FL Studio for me. That is not my problem. And i am not talking about reseting the root note of the sample in channel i know for that.

What i want to say is that labeling is different. In other Host (really any other out there) when i press C3 on my hardware keyboard, C3 is pressed inside Host piano roll. It is labeled as C3 inside host piano roll etc. Thus i always start to draw notes on my C3 (when i am not using HW keyboard).

But when i press that same C3 key on my hardware controller then in FL Studio i see C5 as pressed. Thus when i want to draw notes which normally start in other host at C3 for FL Studio i must think in advance that i need to start to draw notes at C5 because if i start to draw them in FL Studio C3 they will sound two octaves lower.

Hmm...i guess i need to prepare screenshot because my english is quite bad..
I exactly know what you mean. I use cubase for a quite long time. But I bought Fruity as an addition a few weeks back. And the whole C3 and C5 thing is really confusing. I always start to "draw" some synth lines on C3 in Fruity and ask myself why the sound suddenly is pitched down 2 octaves.

But I think I'll get used to this.....maybe :)

Cheers
Dennis

User avatar
Bronto Scorpio
KVRAF
5555 posts since 13 Feb, 2006 from Wiesmoor, Germany

Post Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:24 pm

AdmiralQuality wrote:
Meffy wrote:
VariKusBrainZ wrote:Because there is no standard :?
Truth. The MIDI standard does not define which octave a given MIDI note number is associated with. It's up to implementors to decide, and not all decide alike. You can't say "this or that company is to blame," it's the MIDI standard's lack of definition that is at fault here.
The MIDI spec defines note 60 as middle C. This puts the lowest C (note=0) below subsonic at 16.352 Hz. What MIDI doesn't define is how to designate the octaves. Is the bottom octave named -1? 0? 1? "Subsubcontra"? MIDI doesn't know, nor care, what you call it.

Of course an instrument is free to produce whatever pitch it likes for a given note number, or no pitch at all, or to arbitrarily map sounds to keys (as in a drum map). But there's no ambiguity there, the MIDI note number is the note number. The only issue is what various hosts decide to name the octaves. Which I guess is the issue here. Purely cosmetic.
Exactly.The note number 60 simply is C5 instead of C3 in Fruity. Purely cosmetic as you said. No need to change root notes and stuff like that ;)

Cheers
Dennis

kmonkey
KVRAF
4072 posts since 17 Aug, 2004

Post Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:31 pm

Bronto Scorpio wrote:
AdmiralQuality wrote:
Meffy wrote:
VariKusBrainZ wrote:Because there is no standard :?
Truth. The MIDI standard does not define which octave a given MIDI note number is associated with. It's up to implementors to decide, and not all decide alike. You can't say "this or that company is to blame," it's the MIDI standard's lack of definition that is at fault here.
The MIDI spec defines note 60 as middle C. This puts the lowest C (note=0) below subsonic at 16.352 Hz. What MIDI doesn't define is how to designate the octaves. Is the bottom octave named -1? 0? 1? "Subsubcontra"? MIDI doesn't know, nor care, what you call it.

Of course an instrument is free to produce whatever pitch it likes for a given note number, or no pitch at all, or to arbitrarily map sounds to keys (as in a drum map). But there's no ambiguity there, the MIDI note number is the note number. The only issue is what various hosts decide to name the octaves. Which I guess is the issue here. Purely cosmetic.
Exactly.The note number 60 simply is C5 instead of C3 in Fruity. Purely cosmetic as you said. No need to change root notes and stuff like that ;)

Cheers
Dennis
I am not saying they should change root note, just labeling inside piano roll. See my above screenshot. AFAIK FL Studio is only one doing that sort of thing. Annoying for no particular reason.

AdmiralQuality
Banned
6657 posts since 10 Oct, 2005 from Toronto, Canada

Post Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:33 pm

kmonkey wrote:Annoying for no particular reason.
IL should consider that as a motto. ;)

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