Just demoing Zebra 2...

[EvilDragon]

...and one glaring omission from it is the lack of envelope retrigerring mode when sustain pedal is held. Let me explain:

There are a lot of synths which don't allow fast note retriggering when sustain pedal is held (VAZ Modular, Pro-53, Largo, and your Zebra 2, for example). What does this mean? It means that you hold, for example, a C4, and then while holding C4, you hold the sustain pedal. Now you press other higher or lower notes while keeping C4 and sustain pedal pressed, to get the guitaristic hammer-on/pull-off effect. Korg M1 and Wavestation, and Elektrostudio synths (on top of my head) do this correctly.


Is it possible for you to consider updating Zebra 2 (which I'm demoing currently) with this feature? I didn't try your other synths, but if this behavior is lacking from them as well, you might consider adding this as an option perhaps?


Thanks for hearing out!

[Urs]

I'm not quite sure what you mean...

You want the envelopes of the held voices retriggered by palying other notes while both Hold pedal and key are still pressed?

[EvilDragon]

Hmmm, try this:

Have a lead patch in Retrigger or Legato mode, with fast attack and 100% sustain, short release. Play C4 and hold it down, then constantly repeat E4 played staccato. You will notice that after you release E4 each time, the C4 will retrigger back (this is of course intended to happen!). Now try to do the same thing with sustain pedal held. It should sound the same as without holding the sustain, but it doesn't. Well, at least in this particular mode I'm suggesting - the whole purpose of this is playing fluid legato lines even when retriggering back to the last held monophonic note. But since Zebra 2 "eats up" the held note while sustain pedal is held, it's not possible. In fact, it shouldn't perhaps even be a new mode - simply Retrigger and Legato modes could be "fixed" to behave like this, since in my opinion, it's almost a buggy behavior (since even my old Korg workstation works correctly in this situation).

Try this same thing with the free Elektrostudio synths (for example MoonSonoSx) to see how it should behave. I hope it's clearer now? Thanks for replying!

[xh3rv]

[e] Posts between when I started this post indicate my train of thought may have been going down the wrong track

It might not be impossible to approach this behavior with existing Zebra tools, I think - just a bit technical.

This would be my attempt at that - http://www.box.net/shared/7x8vh44fqm

The trick I used is using the 'mmix' module as a modulation source, using the cross-fading mode (fade source1 / source2 by source3 x constant). Source 1 is a proper envelope, source 2 is sort of a fake envelope - it's sustain is set to max, so it's always open, source 3 is modwheel. So when modwheel is fully up, there's no envelope on the filter (there still is on the amplitude, but that's smooth enough to mimic hammer-ons, could be adjusted in any case).

[pdxindy]

Hmmm, try this:

Have a lead patch in Retrigger or Legato mode, with fast attack and 100% sustain, short release. Play C4 and hold it down, then constantly repeat E4 played staccato. You will notice that after you release E4 each time, the C4 will retrigger back (this is of course intended to happen!). Now try to do the same thing with sustain pedal held. It should sound the same as without holding the sustain, but it doesn't. Well, at least in this particular mode I'm suggesting - the whole purpose of this is playing fluid legato lines even when retriggering back to the last held monophonic note. But since Zebra 2 "eats up" the held note while sustain pedal is held, it's not possible. In fact, it shouldn't perhaps even be a new mode - simply Retrigger and Legato modes could be "fixed" to behave like this, since in my opinion, it's almost a buggy behavior (since even my old Korg workstation works correctly in this situation).

Try this same thing with the free Elektrostudio synths (for example MoonSonoSx) to see how it should behave. I hope it's clearer now? Thanks for replying!

When you hold the sustain pedal, the E4 is then sustained so it should not go back to the C4... the E4 is sustained until the next note is hit which is a consistent behavior and it is the behavior I would consider 'correct'. I would not like to lose the current behavior.

No offense meant, but it is easy to hold the C4 and play the repeated E4 notes without using the sustain pedal.

[zvenx]

yeah pdxindy, I don't agree that what he wants is the 'correct' way, but I guess an option can't hurt..... I think spectrasonics recently did this with their sustain 2 additional option.
rsp

[pdxindy]

yeah pdxindy, I don't agree that what he wants is the 'correct' way, but I guess an option can't hurt..... I think spectrasonics recently did this with their sustain 2 additional option.
rsp

Of course an option is fine... although I might be able to think of other Sustain 2 options I would find more interesting/useful... anyway...

[EvilDragon]

Hmmm, try this:

Have a lead patch in Retrigger or Legato mode, with fast attack and 100% sustain, short release. Play C4 and hold it down, then constantly repeat E4 played staccato. You will notice that after you release E4 each time, the C4 will retrigger back (this is of course intended to happen!). Now try to do the same thing with sustain pedal held. It should sound the same as without holding the sustain, but it doesn't. Well, at least in this particular mode I'm suggesting - the whole purpose of this is playing fluid legato lines even when retriggering back to the last held monophonic note. But since Zebra 2 "eats up" the held note while sustain pedal is held, it's not possible. In fact, it shouldn't perhaps even be a new mode - simply Retrigger and Legato modes could be "fixed" to behave like this, since in my opinion, it's almost a buggy behavior (since even my old Korg workstation works correctly in this situation).

Try this same thing with the free Elektrostudio synths (for example MoonSonoSx) to see how it should behave. I hope it's clearer now? Thanks for replying!

When you hold the sustain pedal, the E4 is then sustained so it should not go back to the C4... the E4 is sustained until the next note is hit which is a consistent behavior and it is the behavior I would consider 'correct'. I would not like to lose the current behavior.

No offense meant, but it is easy to hold the C4 and play the repeated E4 notes without using the sustain pedal.

Yes, but the way I play my lead lines is holding the sustain pedal all the time to get perfect legato during longish lick runs (see Jordan Rudess, for example). Every metal keyboard player does that. This is interfering with my style of playing. And all the hardware synths and workstations I've tried DO NOT exibit this behavior, they all retrigger back even if sustain pedal is pressed.

So I guess if Urs can add this as an additional option it would push me more towards the "BUY" button!

[Howard]

I think what EvilDragon means is low note priority mode, which Zebra currently doesn't have. Thinking about it, Zebra could do better than that - there must be a way of making the note spring back in either direction, as if the sustain pedal were not being pressed.

I think Urs will be addressing mono modes "fairly soonish"

[Howard]

I'm not quite sure what you mean...
You want the envelopes of the held voices retriggered by playing other notes while both Hold pedal and key are still pressed?

No, he would like the held note/voice to be retriggered by releasing all other notes, even while Hold pedal is on. Makes a lot of sense for mono soloing!

[EvilDragon]

I think what EvilDragon means is low note priority mode, which Zebra currently doesn't have. Thinking about it, Zebra could do better than that - there must be a way of making the note spring back in either direction, as if the sustain pedal were not being pressed.

I think Urs will be addressing mono modes "fairly soonish"

Nope, not low priority, the way I'm describing is last note priority. It's just that I want that sustain pedal doesn't eat up the already held monophonic note.

Howard described it well, yes. Thanks for support, H!

[EvilDragon]

Sooo... Urs?

[Urs]

Sooo... Urs?

Oops, I thought I had posted an answer here...

It seems fair enough, I'll look into it

[dhalfen]

+1 -- to both "low-note" and "last-note" priority modes. Please!!!

[EvilDragon]

Sooo... Urs?

Oops, I thought I had posted an answer here...

It seems fair enough, I'll look into it

Hehe! You asked for confirmation or further explanation, I believe. I hope it's clarified enough! Thanks!