2CAudio Breeze | 2.5 | Simple. Light. Pristine. Intelligently Adaptive.

[axb312]

Is there a way to separate out the early and late reflections in Breeze? Say I want to use this for late reflections only?

not exactly. not like in Aether for example, where we have two completely separate engines with level controls for both.

but there are ways to "minimize the perception of the ERs so much that the result is effectively quite similar to diffuse LR-engery-only".

the ways are:

1: use Hall, Chamber, or Colored (if coloration is acceptable/desirable) Alg Modes
2: set Density to "far away from 0" such as -100% or +100%
3: set Contour to a "medium negative value" such as -25% to -75%
4: Use high diffusion
5: avoid huge sizes

Chamber in particular is incredibly dense and will hide the perception of any isolated reflections quite well, unless you intentionally try to create them (which can actually be cool also).

or for "plate-like" things:

1: use one of the Hyper-Plate modes
2: set Density to "far away from 0" such as -100% or +100%
3: set Contour to a "medium positive value" such as 25% to 75%
4: keep size small to medium (say 20m or less)
5: try negative shape values
6: Use high diffusion

this will produce an instant full density, dispersive impulse response, with almost perfect exponential decay. i.e. like an ideal plate. There is basically nothing in it that can really be considered "ERs".

Hi Andrew,

1. Are the colors displayed on the time graph related to those in the EQ graph?

2. Is this an effective alternative way to obtain late reflections only (maybe it's the same thing you're saying, phrased differently), based on the the time graph?:
- Lower the amplitude of the reflections (can this be done by reducing size or...?)
- increase diffusion (create a sense of all the reverb tails meshing together)...
- Significantly larger pre-delay than that used for the early reflections...(might need significantly larger pre-delay times for this)...
- small size

3. Will the addition of a third eq band be possible? (And perhaps a smoother GUI Ala Pro-Q2) ?

Andrew?

[Andrew Souter]

Andrew?

1: yes, they are the same colors.

2: no, see my previous instructions.

3: no. (aether has had 3 bands for 10 years now. Use Aether if 3 bands is ultra important to you. Breeze is SIMPLE. It is not B2 or Aether. But you can achieve many of the same kind of shapes using only two bands with some custom filters as we have such as the "cut tilt" filters -- we may add additional custom filters, but we are not going to add tons of bands/nodes like FF Pro-R. There are more important things in reverb than how many bands your filter can have. Tons of bands is cool for EQ to correct audio engineering problems, but is not particularly useful for verb IMHO, with the possible exception of tiny ambiences which are more filter effects than they are reverb. And if your goal is to get freaky filter effects with "uneven" colored freq spectrums, well we have the "Colored" modes which are effectively THOUSANDS of bands.... but I doubt you manually want to edit thousands of bands, right? ) So ONE "node" for EQ, one for DAMP in Breeze, but they can have up to 4 parameters and we can already achieve almost all the things that would be desirable to achieve with a three-band shelf approach.

3 continued: the goal with the filter design is that a musician/artist/vocalist (even a drumer! ) should be able to understand the Freq display. They should be able to simply drag ONE node for EQ, one for DAMP and it will behave in a very intuitive way for all filter types. They do not even need to know that the filter may have other "advanced" parameters (P3, P4). They do not need to know what "bias" or "tilt" or even "Q" does. They do not even need to know there is a an advanced filter window, with more complex options, or that P3 and P4 can be adjusted with Alt-drag from the MAIN page. They do not need to know what kind of filter is currently being used by a preset. They can simply select a preset, and adjust Freq (and gain) with a simple drag on the nodes on the main page view. Then they can go back to more musical things -- such as actually creating music.

Complexity is a bad word in terms of breeze. B2 is for rocket science. Kaleidoscope is for mind expansion...

Breeze is: Simple. Light. Pristine.

[axb312]

Re: The colors being the same - what does this mean?

Do the colors correspond to EQ ranges or....?

If I am perhaps bugging you with all the questions and feedback, do let me know. Won't waste your time or mine anymore. Thx.

[Andrew Souter]

and speaking of Kaleidoscope, it is itself a parallel bank of thousands of filters, and they can all be independently tuned musically and modulated/animated/automated. So if it is a contest of who has the most bands, we win.

but again, this stuff is not for Breeze...

[Andrew Souter]

Re: The colors being the same - what does this mean?

Do the colors correspond to EQ ranges or....?

I don't understand you original question. you asked "are the colors related". I said yes, they are the same.

The colors are simply pretty colors. They don't have any intrinsic meaning -- color is indeed fully customizable.

There are two colors in the GUI design. Call them "primary" and "secondary" since they are variable.

In the freq display primary is used for Damp, and secondary is used for EQ.

in the time display primary is used for Left and secondary is used for Right.

[plexuss]

@axb312 Just buy Breeze. You know you want to. I think you are trying to find a cure for GAS. In this case, there are none - Breeze is as you are experiencing it: a great reverb! In fact you should get The Perfect Storm because if you think Breeze 2 is good, wait until you try Aether and B2!

You can always put an EQ post-reverb to tone shape it. I will often use a series of plugins after a reverb including a compressor, saturation and sometimes modulation like a phaser, chorus, flanger etc. if the sound I am going for warrants it.

The only think to keep in mind with 2c-audio is their transfer policy (taken from their FAQ on the current site). Fee: 20% of the regular price, once transferred it can not be transferred again.

Code: Select all

What is your license transfer policy?

License transfers are handled in the following manner:

1) The original customer communicates the desire to Transfer his SN via sending an email to us using the email address originally used to place the order, which includes his original order number, his SN, and the name and email of the new customer he wishes to transfer to.
2) The original customer surrenders his existing Retail SN, agrees not to use the product any more, and agrees to destroy all copies of the product he has.
3) The Retail SN of the original customer is made invalid by 2CAudio in future updates of the product. 
4) The original customer does not retain any special rights to repurchase The Product at any discount in the future. The Product must be repurchased at normal retail price at a later date if desired.

5) There is a fee of 20% of MSRP of The Product which is paid by the new customer.
6) The new customer is given a special web-page to order a new copy of The Product for this license transfer fee.
7) The new customer receives a special SN which is a License Transfer Class SN.
8) This new License Transfer Class SN is NOT transferable at any point in the future to another 3rd party. Licenses acquired via transfer are effectively NFR: Not For Resale.
9) This new License Transfer Class SN is eligible for both free and paid updates as well as cross-grade offers in the future life of the product.
10) The new Licensee is entitled to full support of the product, just as is provided to regular Retail customers.

11) License transfers initiated by the original customer are only honored by 2CAudio once all of the above steps have been completed..

[jbraner]

I agree with this! ^

Just get it! I have th eperfect storm, but I happen to like Aether the best. It just does really nice "subtle" rooms and/or ambiences - and does not get in the way...

[SJ_Digriz]

There is quite a bit of audio glitching, especially on controls that affect the graphics, if automated or changed live. I'm on Win10/Cubase 9.5. Is this a known issue? Or, is it an expected thing for this type of plugin? Or should I investigate causes?

[Andrew Souter]

There is quite a bit of audio glitching, especially on controls that affect the graphics, if automated or changed live. I'm on Win10/Cubase 9.5. Is this a known issue? Or, is it an expected thing for this type of plugin? Or should I investigate causes?

it is more or less expected and not expected to change. Almost zero, and maybe exactly zero parameters can be automated perfectly smoothly. To do so would require A LOT more cpu usage and we don't generally consider it to be critical feature of verb.

well, perhaps we can have perfectly smooth automation of Mix/Balance. That is easily possible.

perfectly smooth automation of TIME could be desirable creatively I agree, but it would add decent CPU.

something to think about, but not for 2.0.x

[lnikj]

You had bragging rights as an early ash tray purchaser a few years ago IIRC Andrew ... surprised you haven't got an 10 core retina iMac Pro yet

Edit: Should probably have quoted your post about Retina problems so you would know what I was talking about ...

[SJ_Digriz]

There is quite a bit of audio glitching, especially on controls that affect the graphics, if automated or changed live. I'm on Win10/Cubase 9.5. Is this a known issue? Or, is it an expected thing for this type of plugin? Or should I investigate causes?

it is more or less expected and not expected to change. Almost zero, and maybe exactly zero parameters can be automated perfectly smoothly. To do so would require A LOT more cpu usage and we don't generally consider it to be critical feature of verb.

well, perhaps we can have perfectly smooth automation of Mix/Balance. That is easily possible.

perfectly smooth automation of TIME could be desirable creatively I agree, but it would add decent CPU.

something to think about, but not for 2.0.x

noted ... mix automation support would be good as soon as you can as Cubase does not have wet/dry between inserts.

[Andrew Souter]

You had bragging rights as an early ash tray purchaser a few years ago IIRC Andrew ... surprised you haven't got an 10 core retina iMac Pro yet

I may have been the first person in the USA to order the max spec machine. I ordered instantly upon availability -- even though I thought the design was dumb at first and would have preferred the previous design simply with the most recent (dual) Xeons at the time etc. (but the previous mac pros were way under-specced at that time and fallen behind win workstations.)

I did not really see a need for why the Mac Pro should be small/compact, and frankly for the studio I would have preferred to have some rack form such as the the previous xServe to put in a machine room.

but as life happened, I ended up traveling and working remotely a lot the past three years, and the mac pro trashcan can go in the shoulder bag like a laptop and taken carry-on on an airplane. Buy a 4K TV at the remote location, and you have full workstation power with about the same convenience as a laptop. Amazing!

Re iMac Pro: I will wait for the new (real) Mac Pro.

The pricing on max spec iMacPro ($13K, is insane.) You can build a dual Xeon SP Dell/HP for this price with 48 total real cores! 48 cores is better than 18. (plus more memory channels, faster memory, etc)

so I wait in anticipation to see what the new Mac Pro will bring. But I fear pricing will reach $20k and higher based on what I see in the iMac Pro.

plus I'd like to see an 8K monitor at about 60". 5K in 30inches is just wasting pixels. No one can see such fine detail. I have a 40" 4k. 80" 8k, would be too big physically for studios. 8k at 60" would be about the right compromise of useable pixels, vs extreme crispiness.


but anyway, I am VERY well aware that these extreme systems are NOT the target for breeze. Breeze will work perfectly fine on a 2006 laptop...

[axb312]

@axb312 Just buy Breeze. You know you want to. I think you are trying to find a cure for GAS. In this case, there are none - Breeze is as you are experiencing it: a great reverb! In fact you should get The Perfect Storm because if you think Breeze 2 is good, wait until you try Aether and B2!

You can always put an EQ post-reverb to tone shape it. I will often use a series of plugins after a reverb including a compressor, saturation and sometimes modulation like a phaser, chorus, flanger etc. if the sound I am going for warrants it.

The only think to keep in mind with 2c-audio is their transfer policy (taken from their FAQ on the current site). Fee: 20% of the regular price, once transferred it can not be transferred again.

Code: Select all

What is your license transfer policy?

License transfers are handled in the following manner:

1) The original customer communicates the desire to Transfer his SN via sending an email to us using the email address originally used to place the order, which includes his original order number, his SN, and the name and email of the new customer he wishes to transfer to.
2) The original customer surrenders his existing Retail SN, agrees not to use the product any more, and agrees to destroy all copies of the product he has.
3) The Retail SN of the original customer is made invalid by 2CAudio in future updates of the product. 
4) The original customer does not retain any special rights to repurchase The Product at any discount in the future. The Product must be repurchased at normal retail price at a later date if desired.

5) There is a fee of 20% of MSRP of The Product which is paid by the new customer.
6) The new customer is given a special web-page to order a new copy of The Product for this license transfer fee.
7) The new customer receives a special SN which is a License Transfer Class SN.
8) This new License Transfer Class SN is NOT transferable at any point in the future to another 3rd party. Licenses acquired via transfer are effectively NFR: Not For Resale.
9) This new License Transfer Class SN is eligible for both free and paid updates as well as cross-grade offers in the future life of the product.
10) The new Licensee is entitled to full support of the product, just as is provided to regular Retail customers.

11) License transfers initiated by the original customer are only honored by 2CAudio once all of the above steps have been completed..

Didn't read about the transfer policy...too late anyway lol...took the plunge...will download and experiment fully after the update...

[Ploki]

we will look into this. Note don't actually have any "assets'. Our download file is 5MB or something. If we had any kind of pre-rendered images for 10 sizes with some HUGE sizes, the download would easily be > 1GB just from images.

We drawn our GUI completely "with code" now. So we can perfectly drawn any size we might like.

For retina, Apple rather makes it a PITA. Really we should just be able to say "here's a box. here's the size of the box in pixels. draw the gui this size." and for Retina, this "box" should simply be 2x the size of nonRetina. Simple. Just let us draw pixels directly!!

But Apple does not make it so simple. They have some "pixel abstraction stuff" going on. I don't personally have a retina mac to test on, and but Denis and I (and a bunch of other developers) don't really like this "abstraction of pixel values". I assume this stuff came from iOS where people are pinch-zooming baby picts etc all day long.

anway, we will figure it out, but I thought I'd complain first.

Yay!
Complaining well recieved! apple can be naggy about that.

Well if its code-drawn it should be even less of an issue (i imagine). I only program in Max/MSP so i can't be much of help here sorry.
Didn't know you switched solely to code-drawn GUI, that's kinda cool. (Will be tougher to make skins though).

if you need someone to test out the GUI @retina I' be happy to.

[lnikj]

You know that Jonny Ive's design fetishes will strike again Andrew and deliver you with a 'real' mac pro as some glowing translucent cube or somesuch that somehow still locks you into Apple's expensive components.