Supersaw: Still sounding bad!!!

[Trancit]

Hi Bulent,

sorry to say, but unison on Osc level is still hardly usuable for longer notes (pads etc...).

The supersaw sound is flanging too much and (which is worse) very "pulsating"...

I did a little comparison with a few supersaw capable synths:

Synthmaster:



I hope, you see, what I mean with pulsating...this is how it sounds:

http://www.fileden.com/files/2010/12/27 ... master.mp3

MuSynth:



MuSynth uses as well samples as osc sources, much less pulsating and much smoother sounding:

http://www.fileden.com/files/2010/12/27 ... uSynth.mp3

Next one is Synth1:



Even less pusating much more dense in sound:

http://www.fileden.com/files/2010/12/27 ... Synth1.mp3

Last one is Sylenth1:



Even if it is known as supersaw synth, the supersaw sound is often very raw and to be honest doesn't knock my socks off:

http://www.fileden.com/files/2010/12/27 ... lenth1.mp3

Again sorry to say, but Synthmaster is the only one, which has this behaviour that much and this has nothing to do with any settings... more or less detune results only in different "pulsating speeds" and so on...

It seems to me, as if the developers of the other synths have taken care, to prevent the different waveforms from adding their amplitudes, when they "meet" or perhaps they avoid that the waveforms "meet" on different points...

Synthmaster's supersaw sounds like they were done by PWM modulated by an LFO...
If I want such a sound, I'll use PWM...
A supersaw has to sound different to that and shall not "pulsate".
A supersaw has to sound "phasey" but not flanging

The implementation of it in the osc section is perfectly done...it's only the sound, that doesn't work correctly (or in a different way than the others)

BTW: There is something wrong with the mp3 coding I did...please forgive me and I'll hope you'll here the difference anyway, even with that kind of crackling...

Trancit

[kv331]

Try to create it with

1) Basic Saw (digital) waveform instead of analog Saw
2) Turn on "Free" running
3) Use Additive mode which gives you more power to customize parameters such as individual detunes of each waveform.

also add a little bit drift.

Are you talking about "Unison" or "Voices" ?

SuperSaw in SM does not use any sort of PWM.

[Trancit]

Try to create it with

1) Basic Saw (digital) waveform instead of analog Saw
2) Turn on "Free" running
3) Use Additive mode which gives you more power to customize parameters such as individual detunes of each waveform.

also add a little bit drift.

Are you talking about "Unison" or "Voices" ?

SuperSaw in SM does not use any sort of PWM.

1) I used the Basic Saw (Single Cycle Waveform)
2) Free running is turned on
3) I hate the additive mode, I cannot get a single "well sounding sound" from it, maybe I am too silly...especially I get very hard attacks on every note I hit

I tried pitch drift now, which helps a lot, but it's still not there...

Will test a little bit more and come back

[kv331]

Insigna had a similar concern, so I'll have to investigate this further.
Our aim is to improve this guy constantly, so dont worry I'll do something about it

[Ingonator]

Don't worry. I'll provide a multisampled Virus TI Hypersaw with my bank which i'm working on...
Ma<ybe i'll post a few audio demos of the patches i made with it.

In Synthmaster for emulating a Hypersaw it's better to use the additive oscillators (or 2 of them) with 8 Saws and slight (or more) detuning.
I have also done a patch which uses 8 Saws of my own Single cycle waves ("multi single cycles" to be precise...) based on a Moog Slim Phatty. Maybe i'll do a demo of that too.


Ingo

[Xenox.AFL]

Sorry, i cannot share your thoughts.

I think, synthmaster can ofcourse make this Roland SuperSAW, i tried it, too and it sounds like this, reverb is from synthmaster, too...

http://soundcloud.com/xenox-afl/fn-synthmaster-supersaw

[Bronto Scorpio]

Sorry, i cannot share your thoughts.

I think, synthmaster can ofcourse make this Roland SuperSAW, i tried it, too and it sounds like this, reverb is from synthmaster, too...

http://soundcloud.com/xenox-afl/fn-synthmaster-supersaw

Sounds great

Cheers
Dennis

[ftech]

Sorry, i cannot share your thoughts.

I think, synthmaster can ofcourse make this Roland SuperSAW, i tried it, too and it sounds like this, reverb is from synthmaster, too...

http://soundcloud.com/xenox-afl/fn-synthmaster-supersaw

That sounds as Supersaw as any other Supersaw I have heard..........nice work Frank

[Xenox.AFL]

Thanx dudes, nice that you like my small example, i really like the original SuperSAW, too...

I made this patch for the factory patches in version 2.5, so if you have synthmaster, you have the patch as well..

Frank

[Examigan]

Thanx dudes, nice that you like my small example, i really like the original SuperSAW, too...

I made this patch for the factory patches in version 2.5, so if you have synthmaster, you have the patch as well..

Frank

Sounds great Frank!

[Trancit]

Sorry, i cannot share your thoughts.

I think, synthmaster can ofcourse make this Roland SuperSAW, i tried it, too and it sounds like this, reverb is from synthmaster, too...

http://soundcloud.com/xenox-afl/fn-synthmaster-supersaw

Sorry, but again I have to disagree...but of course, it is all a matter of taste

For me, it's a huge supersaw sound (and for me, much too much overcompressed)...yes, but:

1. It tells nothing about the quality, because it's too short played...

the quality shows only, if a note is played over longer time...this quality I reach with really every synth

2. it is much too dull... for me, a really good supersaw has this little fizzling in the top end, but a dense and smooth sound too...

Another good point to measure the quality of a supersaw is how the higher notes sound... "bad" supersaws loose much density and softness on higher notes and start to sound metallic...especially with a long release...

One of my favourite supersaw padssounds is the Airwave TranceSaws1 from Nexus.
Here is a little example of what I am speaking of:

http://www.fileden.com/files/2010/12/27 ... /Nexus.mp3

This example doesn't use any additional effects like delay or reverb...it is all shut off...

If anybody claims, that this sound uses many layers...this example is played just by layer one of the Nexus sound, which contains the main supersaw:

http://www.fileden.com/files/2010/12/27 ... Nexus2.mp3

Wow, that's nothing but just f*cking awesome, lush and smooth...that's, what I call a supersaw.

Next very good example from Adam Szabo's JP6K:

http://soundcloud.com/adamszabo/jp6k-demo

the padsound at 0.35 has nearly the same quality...

Please try to recreate this density by using only the basic saw wave from the single cycle folder...

[Examigan]

..it is all a matter of taste

[Trancit]

..it is all a matter of taste

Of course, but fact for me is, that Synthmaster in it's current state isn't capable of doing supersaws like the examples I was posting...which (not in every aspect but 95%) even Synth1 actually is...

And that's was my posting is about.

[insigna]

Thank you guys for cool topic.

SM's supersaw's, I do not think it was that bad. Yes I agree; there is a need to improved detunation parameter. bülent do what is all required things and we'll help him.

If you ignore the technique trivia, you'll get good results. But in the near future, the right technique, I am sure in achieving the correct result. I'm not talking about only 'supersaw'. I'm talking about the 'ultra-saw'. Thank you.

[Trancit]

Thank you guys for cool topic.

SM's supersaw's, I do not think it was that bad. Yes I agree; there is a need to improved detunation parameter. bülent do what is all required things and we'll help him.

If you ignore the technique trivia, you'll get good results. But in the near future, the right technique, I am sure in achieving the correct result. I'm not talking about only 'supersaw'. I'm talking about the 'ultra-saw'. Thank you.

Perhaps I should say something about this as well, as it's me who's claiming:

Bülent did a really really great job with the new version and I don't want to cut this really great work. He improved the sound quality of Synthmaster about 5000% compared to 2.0 and turned this synth into a monster...
Additionally he is the most responsitive developer I've ever seen... I think he really implemented everything, which was requested in the next few days.

So from me big respect here too.

This thread here is only meant to make this monster even better... I've a lot alternatives here, but I want to use this thingy... I believe you with ease, that this issue is only a matter of little time, I just want to be sure, we are talking about the same thing here...that's why I defend my position this intensely here.