Creamware Minimax vs Diva

[Frantz]

Hi Urs,

I realize comparing two emulations is kind of questionable but here goes anyway. I like the sound of the Minimax when sweeping the filters for very low bass notes. When I try to recreate a Minimax patch on Diva, it sounds like there is some kind of digital distortion or clipping. Also Diva's envelopes are much quicker than the Minimax, so the sweep happens much faster.

Here is an MP3 with the Minimax first followed by Diva:

http://slamfrog.com/MiniMax_vs_Diva.mp3

For both recordings, I hit the two lowest C notes on my keyboard and had both in Poly mode. I didn't do any knob twiddling. I used the latest version of Diva in Divine mode. No effects or compression were used.

Obviously I wasn't expecting them to sound the same but Diva sounds kind of odd to me in this case. I was wondering if you could comment on this.

Here is the Diva patch which has the knobs in the same position as the Minimax:

http://slamfrog.com/Diva_Test.h2p


Thanks,
Mike

[EvilDragon]

"Knobs in the same position" is not quite the way to compare, because Diva has knobs scaled differently (allows for wider range of values).

[hakey]

Yep, sounds like the settings aren't even remotely close.

Also, didn't Urs mention that Diva models VCA non-linearities, whereas the Minimax doesn't?

[EvilDragon]

Also, didn't Urs mention that Diva models VCA non-linearities, whereas the Minimax doesn't?

Yes, he did.

[Urs]

First off, you need to turn the oscillators way down. Then, the maximum amount of filter contour on a Minimoog is 60 semitones. Diva's got twice the range. You have to turn the knob half way down towards middle position.

Also, Waveform 9.0 on the third oscillator is a narrower pulse than a Minimoog does. Go down to 8.0

Then, add a bit more resonance. Use divine mode.

Play one octave higher than you did - voila!

Urs

[Frantz]

First off, you need to turn the oscillators way down. Then, the maximum amount of filter contour on a Minimoog is 60 semitones. Diva's got twice the range. You have to turn the knob half way down towards middle position.

Thanks Urs! Yes, with some adjustments I can get Diva to sound a lot closer to the Minimax. Here is the second attempt in case anyone is interested with Minimax first and Diva second. The nasty crackles at 0:45 are because I am still demoing Diva. I couldn't match the resonance of Diva to Minimax but I am not expecting them to be identical.

http://slamfrog.com/MiniMax_vs_Diva_v2.mp3


I am wondering if it was wise to calibrate the Diva knobs differently from the Minimoog. I find the Minimax to be very immediate and intuitive because pretty much any knob settings sound good. Diva requires more care because there is a wider range of values. I think Diva should at least flash a red light if there is internal digital clipping.

The other issue is CPU. That simple two note filter sweep peaked the CPU of my old computer at 80%. I need to test if Diva is usable on that computer with actual musical content.

Regards,
Mike

[EvilDragon]

Diva's CPU usage is here to stay, though.

[Frantz]

Diva's CPU usage is here to stay, though.

Yes, at some point I need to get a faster computer.

I wonder what kind of black DSP magic Creamware / SonicCore used to make the Minimax. It would be interesting if they made VSTs instead of their own proprietary platform.

[EvilDragon]

Likely they used some Sharc DSPs or something like that. It's not really "black magic". Minimax' filters don't seem to zero-feedback-delay designs like Diva's are. That's where most of Diva's CPU consumption goes.

[Frantz]

Likely they used some Sharc DSPs or something like that. It's not really "black magic". Minimax' filters don't seem to zero-feedback-delay designs like Diva's are. That's where most of Diva's CPU consumption goes.

It's not just the hardware. I have a Waldorf Q which I am guessing has the same or more DSP power that the Minimax has and its analog filter emulations are totally unconvincing. There is some serious DSP wizardy going on in the Minimax even without zero-feedback yadda yadda. There is probably an interesting story behind Creamware's bankruptcy given how far ahead they were in the analog DSP arms race.

[Frantz]

I need to test if Diva is usable on that computer with actual musical content.

I tried using Diva on a track I am working on. I started getting some good sounds but a single note can send the CPU to 100%. I will wait until I get a new computer before looking at Diva again.


DIVA = Destroys Intel Vaporizes AMD

[grandmasterbird]

I need to test if Diva is usable on that computer with actual musical content.

I tried using Diva on a track I am working on. I started getting some good sounds but a single note can send the CPU to 100%. I will wait until I get a new computer before looking at Diva again.


DIVA = Destroys Intel Vaporizes AMD

Or you could use in 'draft' setting then bounce audio down in best quality mode

[DrGonzo]

DIVA = Destroys Intel Vaporizes AMD

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[DrGonzo]

I don't want to hijack the thread or anything, but I just have to say that every time I fire up my old PC with those old Creamware cards, I always end up being amazed. Sure - they are loads of crappy instruments on Score - but so many instruments that are just simply fantastic: Minimax, Solaris, Quantum Wave and of course Adern Flexor.

The only reason why I still have my old Northwood Pentium 4 2 GHz PC in my studio is so I can run those old Scope cards.

/C