Any U-He Synth: Possible to pitch bend only first note played?

[Gonga]

I'd like to be able to set up Diva or Zebra to pitch bend only the first note played in duo or poly mode. I'd especially like to be able to do this when syncing oscillators (when Diva's Osc 1 is inaudible).

If it's possible, how?

The reason is I want to be able to use "open string" technique. Jimi Hendrix used to bend only one string while playing a higher one "open" (unfingered). Usually he'd bend the lower string up to the higher one. It's an amazing sound, used later by other guitarists, as well as Jean Luc Ponty on violin and Jam Hammer on analog synth (and Yamaha DX too, somehow...). The technique was easy to do with the Oberheim FVS-1, because you could assign the first oecillator to always play the first note pressed. I adored that synth's note assignment scheme.

What I really need to be able to do is assign one voice to the first note pressed, and have it alone assigned to pitch bend. I don't think Diva can do it, but maybe Zebra?

p.s. I'll give bonus points to anybody who knew I was going to ask this someday...

[pdxindy]

no such built in facility... but two instances might be made to work with some midi utilities

[xh3rv]

The voice management seems a bit tricky as you've mentioned, but if I've read your post correctly -

With Zebra, here's a partial solution - Assign OSC or similar tuning modulation to MMix1. Use ModMixer 1 in 'fade 1/2 by 3xC'. Assign 1: none, 2: MMap1, 3: PitchW. Set ModMapper1 to 2 steps, the first at 100 and the second at 0. Set global pitchbend up/down to zero. In duophonic I think you'd be able to skip the MMap and just tune the odd or even numbered modules by pitchwheel directly.

With Diva, you could accomplish the same thing by using 2 voices, and setting the VoiceMaps to 100 and 0. Then multiply VoiceMap and PitchBend, assign to tuning, and set global pitchbends to zero. I think it should be possible to stack 2 voices as well for something like this. Possibly split tuning would be useful in the Dual VCO as well.

Howard mentioned setting keyscale to zero on an OSC and then feeding KeyFol or KeyFol2 to tuning modulation in duophonic mode to switch up voice assignments in Zebra so I'm sure that's possible, might help with voice allocation you want.

[Gonga]

no such built in facility... but two instances might be made to work with some midi utilities

Thanks. Unfortunately I wouldn't know how to set up an instance to ignore the first note for example.

I know Synthix and OPX have a key to note assignment capability similar to the Oberheims, but their pitch bend intervals are to limited for me.

[Gonga]

The voice management seems a bit tricky as you've mentioned, but if I've read your post correctly -

With Zebra, here's a partial solution - Assign OSC or similar tuning modulation to MMix1. Use ModMixer 1 in 'fade 1/2 by 3xC'. Assign 1: none, 2: MMap1, 3: PitchW. Set ModMapper1 to 2 steps, the first at 100 and the second at 0. Set global pitchbend up/down to zero. In duophonic I think you'd be able to skip the MMap and just tune the odd or even numbered modules by pitchwheel directly.

With Diva, you could accomplish the same thing by using 2 voices, and setting the VoiceMaps to 100 and 0. Then multiply VoiceMap and PitchBend, assign to tuning, and set global pitchbends to zero. I think it should be possible to stack 2 voices as well for something like this. Possibly split tuning would be useful in the Dual VCO as well.

Howard mentioned setting keyscale to zero on an OSC and then feeding KeyFol or KeyFol2 to tuning modulation in duophonic mode to switch up voice assignments in Zebra so I'm sure that's possible, might help with voice allocation you want.

Holy smoke Andrew are you as much of a synth genius as it sounds? I have no clue what you just said, but unless some kind soul creates such a patch in Diva and shares it, I'm going to have to bite the bullet and try to follow your instructions

This is extremely exciting...it's something I've only dreamed of doing for the past 30 years or so!

Yeah, I've fallen deeply in love with Diva's sync sound and would need to bend only Osc 2 of the Triple VCO module in duophonic mode. I don't think it would be possible in polyphonic mode would it?

[pdxindy]

no such built in facility... but two instances might be made to work with some midi utilities

Thanks. Unfortunately I wouldn't know how to set up an instance to ignore the first note for example.

I know Synthix and OPX have a key to note assignment capability similar to the Oberheims, but their pitch bend intervals are to limited for me.

I think I'm still not quite sure what you want to do.

Can you split your keyboard? 2 instances split on the keyboard and 1 of the keyboard regions responds to pitch wheel and the other doesn't... or make 2 versions of the same preset one with pitchbend and one without... Adjust global transpose to suit...

A good midi controller does a lot!

You use one region for the first note, other region for subsequent notes.

As xh3rv said, you can use the pitchwheel to control a specific osc in Zebra and not another... but then you are bending half a preset. It doesn't necessarily sound like 2 separate notes... 2 instances sounds stronger cause you are bending a whole sound, not half of it...

Same in Diva...

[xh3rv]

unless some kind soul creates such a patch in Diva and shares it, I'm going to have to bite the bullet and try to follow your instructions

Here was 2 quick hacks with contrasting pitchbend in two ways in Diva
http://www.box.com/s/bahftiqt0434n1pqzv6v

http://www.box.com/s/zok1sigx9dmp5z78qvr2

If somehow this did actually match what you're looking for it's at least part accident, and also I've cheated in a couple ways - first, I've been playing with some similar split pitchbending (envelopes to detunes with stacked voices, not entirely dissimilar) lately and second, I literally have been learning from the u-he synths side-by-side with more theoretical stuff as it appears in mathematics and computer science - there's really a lot of serendipitous realizations across the two (which turn out to be consequential rather than coincidental, but still ...). I really think the u-he stuff is a little better than some other synths for that kind of thing, I wouldn't really know, at the very least it all sounds great!

[Gonga]

no such built in facility... but two instances might be made to work with some midi utilities

Thanks. Unfortunately I wouldn't know how to set up an instance to ignore the first note for example.

I know Synthix and OPX have a key to note assignment capability similar to the Oberheims, but their pitch bend intervals are to limited for me.

I think I'm still not quite sure what you want to do.

Can you split your keyboard? 2 instances split on the keyboard and 1 of the keyboard regions responds to pitch wheel and the other doesn't... or make 2 versions of the same preset one with pitchbend and one without... Adjust global transpose to suit...

A good midi controller does a lot!

You use one region for the first note, other region for subsequent notes.

As xh3rv said, you can use the pitchwheel to control a specific osc in Zebra and not another... but then you are bending half a preset. It doesn't necessarily sound like 2 separate notes... 2 instances sounds stronger cause you are bending a whole sound, not half of it...

Same in Diva...

Thanks guys. Yeah, I'm a player. I need to control it all instantly in concert with my 37-years of playing style with the right hand controlling note-on in the same region of the keyboard and left hand on the joystick controlling pitch bend.

It's not really complicated at all. It's just difficult to do with modern synths. I'll give an example just to make sure you understand what I need to do. I need to be able to play a minor third with two fingers of my right hand. I should be able to bend the first note touched (the lower note) up to the second note a minor third higher, but the second note should not bend at all. That's it! This is how Jan Hammer achieved the Miami Vice sound (that and his sync sweep with the 6-voice Oberheim SEM and later the Memorymoog).

I'd also like to be able to set it to bend two semitones, but I primarily use 3 semitones up (and 24 down).

Thanks, I'm going to check out the patches right now!

[Gonga]

I don't think it works...the notes sound out of tune when playing!

I think the only way it will work is if we can control which voice receives the first note-on. The keyboard needs to be in tune when just playing in duo or poly mode, the first note-on in a chord must go to a single voice.

Designers really need to look at the SEM "Keyboard Control" and "Note Assignment" to see what is possible. This is critical stuff for players, because it opens up all sorts of wonderful, musical possibilities for players of instruments!

If you look at Diva's Trimmers tab, the way the voices trigger in sequence is similar to the Oberheim SEM. Now you just need to be able to assign first note on to Voice 1, second note on to Voice 2, etc. Also, to be able to assign 1st note on to Voice 1, then subsequent notes on to other voices in sequence (another thing the FVS-1 could do).

http://www.tomoberheim.com/images/programmer-01c-Lg.jpg

[Bronto Scorpio]

I requested last note/highest note/whatever note pitchbend a few times now. Sadly the request got burried pretty fast everytime
The only VST I know that does that is FM8.
I guess we'll have to wait for VST3 VST expression thingy support to get a similar feature.

(I haven't read the whole thread....I hope I'm not posting nonsense here )

Cheers
Dennis

[Gonga]

No, I think you're exactly on the money Dennis. I mentioned it also in a few Zebra threads, but I should have brought it up in the Diva threads before. My fault. I don't like being a "nudge."

Again, I think Synthix and OPX can do this, but their pitch-bending options are too limited compared to U-He. I don't own either and don't intend to...I'll just be patient

FM8 does it?

I read through xh3rv
's post and absolutely cannot wrap my head around it! I might have to dissect the patches and look at the manual...a lot...before I get there! I am not in the same league as you guys. I am truly nothing but an old school player who always created simple patches.

[TwoToneshuzz]

I'm just experimenting with two instances in legato mod one with Highest not priority and the other with low note priority

The one with low note priority has pitch bend activated upwards a minor third the one with highest note priority has PB deactivated.

This means that if I hold to tones on one synth the highest not is playing but it doesn't bend. On the other synth the lowest note plays and it does bend.

That works now hoot.

it's a little tricky making sense of how the two synths in mirrored legato high and low note priority but with some practical experience. It gives some interesting possiblities the one synth can have PB enabled only upwards a minor 3rd the other can have PB enabled downwards an octave. I also think careful tuning of the two synths so it makes a interesting sound when played in unison, and a different sound thiner when playing 2 simultaineous notes.

A little more experimenting and I think highest note without PB and last note with PB gives a pretty okay solution.

Don't wait for the tricks that might be implemented or not, use the tools you've got and find your own solution. I'm also sure that with some work you could get this funcionality using Max or Numerology Pro 3


Wade

[Sendy]

I echo the suggestions in this thread wholeheartedly! Also, the ability to only bend held notes, not notes which are in the release stage, would be most welcome.

[xh3rv]

Throwing in the towel on this one

The stuff I posted was really only partially correct in the voice management, and I think the only real way to hack around that would be subtracting keyfollow (adding inverted keyfollow) and keyfollow2 and then quantizing - essentially clipping - which isn't possible to do for small differences in the two keys, quantize doesn't go low enough to get that kind of extreme behavior.

Maybe possible in Zebra and ACE with mapping instead of quantize? But ends up being a bit gibberish to patch with anyway

I echo the suggestions in this thread wholeheartedly! Also, the ability to only bend held notes, not notes which are in the release stage, would be most welcome.

I think multiplying Gate and Pitchbend does this. I hope so anyway, I try to be right once a thread

[Gonga]

I'm just experimenting with two instances in legato mod one with Highest not priority and the other with low note priority

The one with low note priority has pitch bend activated upwards a minor third the one with highest note priority has PB deactivated.

This means that if I hold to tones on one synth the highest not is playing but it doesn't bend. On the other synth the lowest note plays and it does bend.

That works now hoot.

it's a little tricky making sense of how the two synths in mirrored legato high and low note priority but with some practical experience. It gives some interesting possiblities the one synth can have PB enabled only upwards a minor 3rd the other can have PB enabled downwards an octave. I also think careful tuning of the two synths so it makes a interesting sound when played in unison, and a different sound thiner when playing 2 simultaineous notes.

A little more experimenting and I think highest note without PB and last note with PB gives a pretty okay solution.

Don't wait for the tricks that might be implemented or not, use the tools you've got and find your own solution. I'm also sure that with some work you could get this funcionality using Max or Numerology Pro 3


Wade

I might check out that solution tomorrow. Thanks!