2 VIDEOS : RC used as VSTi to drive up to 16 VST instruments in Reaper and Mulab

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KVRAF
4524 posts since 17 Jun, 2013 from very close to Paris, France

Post Sat Mar 01, 2014 4:16 pm

I'm totally new in Reaper (that I tried few hours during a dozen of days and rapidly bought two days ago), but already I think I'm gonna love it because I have very quickly assimilated the basics.

As a kind of exercise of Reaper basics I have tried to drive RapidComposer as composition editor playing two parts of a same score (don't see the score, I made just two drag/drops), each part being affected to a different instrument.

So here is a demo with RapidComposer as composition editor with a synth as melody (here it is OBXD, the best emulation of the Oberheim OB-X, OB-XA and OB-8 and its free!) and a second synth as accompaniment (here it is Night Flight, the wonderful emulation of Jean-Michel Jarre's Eminent 310 in Oxygene)... all that being played in Reaper:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7yPFrLtlmI

I made this video above 2 hours ago to demonstrate this very nice ability to use RapidComposer as VSTI (until two days ago I used to have it only as standalone and now I see it a lot more versatile when used as VSTI). Newbies and beginners will have in this an excellent example to follow step by step simply by using as much as wanted the function "Pause" of their video player.

Sorry, you won't hear any sound because my video capture tool doesn't capture the sound, but by the vu-meters of Reaper you'll see that it works very well.

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KVRAF
4559 posts since 9 Jan, 2010

Post Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:31 am

Thank you, BlackWinny, I changed this topic to sticky...

EDIT: trying to change the title of the topic
https://www.musicdevelopments.com
Innovative music software for creative musicians - home of RapidComposer, Melodya and Syne

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KVRAF

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4524 posts since 17 Jun, 2013 from very close to Paris, France

Post Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:12 am

musicdevelopments wrote:Thank you, BlackWinny, I changed this topic to sticky...
Thank you, Attila!
:tu:

And I'm presently making another video of the same kind (for the same purpose) in Mulab. It will be ready in two or three days, as soon as I have time to do it.

It's a very different method in Mulab... but very easy when one knows the trick and the knack. And in fact... I even prefer in Mulab than in Reaper since it is so easier to get the same result without any numeric values to change (all is made by visual cables).
:clown:
Build your life everyday as if you would live for a thousand years. Marvel at the Life everyday as if you would die tomorrow.
I'm now severely diseased since September 2018.

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KVRAF

Topic Starter

4524 posts since 17 Jun, 2013 from very close to Paris, France

Post Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:43 pm

Here it is for RapidComposer now in Mulab:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKFpVVRsKVI

Can we change the title of the present thread? The best would be:
2 VIDEOS : RC used as VSTI to drive up to 16 VST instruments in Reaper and Mulab

By the way, as everyone will see... it's far easier in Mulab than in Reaper. Both have their advantages...

The frames in blue and brown are annotations. Put your mouse in and you will get little notes about what is done. Don't forget also that a HD quality is available in full screen for this video.

And if you go to the page in Youtube instead of simply seeing it here you will have a long description below the video.

Thanks!
BlackWinny
Build your life everyday as if you would live for a thousand years. Marvel at the Life everyday as if you would die tomorrow.
I'm now severely diseased since September 2018.

KVRist
101 posts since 22 Sep, 2004

Post Fri Apr 11, 2014 4:48 pm

Anyone know how to do this in Ableton Live?

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KVRAF

Topic Starter

4524 posts since 17 Jun, 2013 from very close to Paris, France

Post Sat Apr 12, 2014 9:35 am

revorg1 wrote:Anyone know how to do this in Ableton Live?
Probably the same way...

If nobody gives the precise answer in the next three days, I'll reinstall an Ableton Live Lite (I had stopped at version 8 ) Tuesday of Wednesday to try and give you the answer. I think that there's certainly no difference between version 8 and version 9 for that.
Build your life everyday as if you would live for a thousand years. Marvel at the Life everyday as if you would die tomorrow.
I'm now severely diseased since September 2018.

KVRist
101 posts since 22 Sep, 2004

Post Sat Apr 12, 2014 2:54 pm

in Live you can see RC in the drop down to assign input but there is no way that i see to assign the channels from the different tracks inside the RC vst.

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KVRAF

Topic Starter

4524 posts since 17 Jun, 2013 from very close to Paris, France

Post Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:48 am

Nobody brought you the answer?

Ok, I reinstall my Live Lite 8, and I try to find. As soon as I've managed to get it I make a video to show you the method.
:)
Build your life everyday as if you would live for a thousand years. Marvel at the Life everyday as if you would die tomorrow.
I'm now severely diseased since September 2018.

KVRist
101 posts since 22 Sep, 2004

Post Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:16 am

cool. looking forward to your findings.

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KVRAF

Topic Starter

4524 posts since 17 Jun, 2013 from very close to Paris, France

Post Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:49 am

Ok. Got it. Very easy.
Image

I'm gonna make you the video, probably tomorrow. As soon as it is ready, I post it here. Then you test it... and if it's ok for you I'll modify the title of this thread and add a mention in the first (initial) post to drive here the other Ableton Live users.

Ok?
Build your life everyday as if you would live for a thousand years. Marvel at the Life everyday as if you would die tomorrow.
I'm now severely diseased since September 2018.

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KVRAF
4559 posts since 9 Jan, 2010

Post Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:10 am

Thank you very much, BlackWinny :)
I appreciate your help!

Thanks!
Attila
https://www.musicdevelopments.com
Innovative music software for creative musicians - home of RapidComposer, Melodya and Syne

KVRist
101 posts since 22 Sep, 2004

Post Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:28 pm

do you need max 4 live?

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KVRAF

Topic Starter

4524 posts since 17 Jun, 2013 from very close to Paris, France

Post Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:58 pm

Hum... It's seems harder than I wrote, and probably... impossible.

At my initial try, I hadn't realize that Ableton Live (Lite 8 at least) doesn't recognize the independent MIDI outputs of RapidComposer! It had mixed all the MIDI outputs in one output!

And among all its features... it has many internal instruments any many internal effects for these instruments... And it hosts of course very well the VSTs (everyone knows that)... but it doesn't have any MIDI channel splitter!

I've been got at my first try when I answered you, because after many gropings I thought I had found the solution: I loaded RapidComposer in a first track, loaded a short piano ballad (containing two tracks: a piano and a bass guitar) in RapidComposer, then I loaded a VST instrument (a piano) in the second rack of Ableton and another VST instrument (a bass) in a third rack, then set the inputs of these two VST piano to the output of the rack containing RapidComposer, engage all... and I got all the music (the piano and the bass).

But... I've been got because I didn't realize that Ableton, unlike Reaper and Mulab (that I know and which do that very well !)... Ableton is totally unable to split the MIDI channels coming from an external VST! So it is totally unable to route to the correct track the MIDI message that RC generates (or any external VST generating MIDI in several channels) for each track. It routes systematically all the MIDI messages to only one channel which contains the messages of all the channels ! There's even not a combo to select a MIDI channel among 16 in the MIDI input of a MIDI rack ! Nowhere ! Neither in the rack itself... nor in its mixer ! And the help file of 600 pages being totally mute about this subject... everyone can understand what it means...

I spent several hours to dissect the help file, go through the web (and at least two hours in the Ableton forum itself) to find someone who could have found the solution. But nobody seems to have found the solution except (for Sibelius and Finale)... by using the Rewire!

So Ableton Live (at least Live Lite 8) is unable to do a thing which is done very easily in DAWs like Reaper or Mulab (and probably many others). It sends MIDI messages to the correct MIDI channels only for MIDI messages coming from its internal features (its piano-roll for example) and those coming from MIDI controllers (keyboards, etc.). But not coming from an external VST placed in one of its MIDI racks.

Ableton Live is indeed an excellent DAW... for live performances! But everywhere I see people who use it only for live... or who write very simple scores (generally techno, house, etc.) with its internal piano-roll !
:(
Build your life everyday as if you would live for a thousand years. Marvel at the Life everyday as if you would die tomorrow.
I'm now severely diseased since September 2018.

KVRist
101 posts since 22 Sep, 2004

Post Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:43 pm

i was thinking that a m4l device might do the job but cant find one. Live is good for many things but the midi is lacking. Oh well. maybe i will try studio one next.

thanks for trying.

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KVRAF

Topic Starter

4524 posts since 17 Jun, 2013 from very close to Paris, France

Post Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:24 am

The price of all that is totally amazing.

Max For Live is at 149 euros ! (200 dollars !)
https://www.ableton.com/en/live/max-for-live/#live_buy

And they say at the link just above that to be able to use Max For Live it is imperative to have at minimum Live 9 Standard ! And Live 9 Standard is at 349 euros ! (485 dollars !)
Image

Totally amazing...

A DAW which costs by itself 485 dollars and which is not able to split the MIDI channels of external VSTs as do yet two DAWs which are at only 100 dollars ! (5 times less !)

And to be able (and even that, it is not really sure) to split these MIDI channels you are obliged to add still 200 dollars !

Total: 685 dollars ! nearly 700 dollars !!!
Image

Admittedly, Ableton Live has many qualities. But at 485 dollars having not the single ability to split MIDI channels like do other DAWs which cost 5 times less and be obliged to put out 200 dollars more, in my humble opinion Ableton has a hell of a nerve.

And if one buys the two products together, he has the ensemble (called Live 9 Suite) for... still more expensive ! 600 euros (830 dollars) !... Not less because they make the most of the opportunity to flog a bunch of adding internal instruments.

All that for an excellent tool for live performances, admittedly (for direct drive of the hardware gear it is certainly one of the best tool if not the best)... but reasonably not made at all for the work of a composer.
Build your life everyday as if you would live for a thousand years. Marvel at the Life everyday as if you would die tomorrow.
I'm now severely diseased since September 2018.

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