MDrummer rhythm editor/generator

[FretBuzz]

I have just purchased MDrummer having finally given up on Jamstix - but how on earth do you use the Rhythm editor and generator. There is no helpful documentation, what there is is in a version of English new to me and the videos dont even cover this topic. I have found a brief bit of documentation on the Melda website but cannot tie up the instructions with what I see in the program.

I am sure this is one hell of a program but I do this as a hobby and dont have hours to spend trying to work out how to use it.

I dont like to knock software, but £125.00 and no manual (pdf is fine, I dont expect a printed copy) is a bit much.

So does any one know if there is an easy step-by-step tutorial out there because if there is I cannt find it.

Thanks.

[MeldaProduction]

Please go to MDrummer installation folder / Help and click index.htm. That should give you enough get started. But note there is currently no exhaustive manual as MDrummer is changing a lot and such docs would have hundreds of pages.

[FretBuzz]

Yup - I found all that but it doesnt really help.

For instance I see this

"The best start would probably be a simple tutorial. Just follow these steps, please :

Switch to Rhythm generator module.
Select any base rhythm in the top left part or use Load button to load entire generator settings.
Load a loop from Beats subdirectory using the Loop editor.
Set Channel to 1. Therefore target rhythm will be generated to the channel 1.
Click Process all button.
Switch to Rhythm editor and see your new rhythm on channel 1."

So it says "Select any base rhythm in the top left part or use Load button to load entire generator settings." - I select a rhythm from the top left and then what, I double click or something? basically nothing happens. The instructions then say "OR use Load button to load entire generator settings" - what are 'entire generator settings'? and why are they different from a base rhythm?

It then says "load a loop from Beats subdirectory using the Loop editor" - there is no 'Loop editor' on the Rhythm Generator page. Am I meant to use the one on the Rhythm Editor page? I tried that anyway
but what ever I do the Essential Beat Editor stays the same.

It then says "click Process all button" - there is no 'process all' button, do you mean 'Generate all'? In any case I tried that and all that happens is I loose everything that was in the Loop Editor back on the Rhythm Editor page, it is all blank.

Also, software is always changing that is no excuse for not having a manual (I am software developer and our customers would not tolerate not having a manual), in this case I am sure a couple of pages with diagrams and illustrations would be enough.

Sorry I hate moaning but I just want to use this to generate different rhythms - as I said I have given up with Jamstix (and they have a decent manual, not bad for a one-man operation) I dont want this to go the same way - dont forget having the best software in the world is no good if people cannot use it.

[MeldaProduction]

Well, in MDrummer I'd rather rely on the video tutorials. In your case it's only the problem in the 2 names - loop editor doesn't have this title (though it is a loop editor), but it's called Essential beat editor. And process all is called generate all. Both of these things are caused the software being changed some time ago.

Anyway there is also this video tutorial:



It looks different, but the principles are the same.

[goldglob]

Load or save (entire) generator settings loads/saves all settings you see above the essential beat editor (except Output rhythm channel, signature and preview level) plus all the Advanced settings.
So, included in all this (as a setting) is your highlighted base rhythm selection. There is always an entire generator setting loaded (default or otherwise) but you can then change the base rhythm selection without affecting all the other settings. You can even choose no base rhythm (highlight 'root').
Furthermore, in Advanced settings you can actually choose whether or not to include (merge) your chosen base rhythm (the button up the top is for merging with beats and you also have the merge option for each of intros, breaks, long breaks and outros).

For a start, load a generator setting (load button), turn off all merging (and don't worry about choosing a base rhythm), and don't even load or create an essential beat, generate all, then switch to Rhythm editor tab to see what has been generated. Then clear the generated rhythm (advanced button on the left) so that you can experiment further with a clean slate.
Now try merging base rhythms. Generate, check it out, clear.
Now add an essential beat (for now, just write one in..just a bass drum and snare)..generate all, check, clear.
Or just hit the generate beats rather than generate all button (with merging then without)..check the results, clear.
The Advanced settings button in rhythm generator is dealing with individual loops from which to generate overall rhythms. Have a look at the Melda installation folder, you'll see a loops folder and a rhythms folder. Load different factory generator settings and look in Advanced settings at the different boxes that have been ticked.
Once you figure out the structure you can create (or import) your own loops and save them into the file directory such that they become part of the pool from which stuff is generated.
Another approach which helps learning MD is to forget about the Rhythm generator tab (for now)..just work from the Rhythm editor tab, explore everything there, choose a keyboard slot, write a simple loop for it....you can build a complete rhythm from scratch, painstaking but helps you understand the workings.

Yep, it's complex..and will lead to insanity, but I like it a lot.
Hope this helps.

[FretBuzz]

Thanks Goldglob - I had a good play last night and finally got things moving, I will go over your 'guide' now as well.

I will stick to my opinion (which is what it is, my opinion) that for the money there should be an adequate guide - I guess adequate is open to interpretation. To be fair I am the first person to complain when people complain to forums that they cannot do 'such and such' with a piece of software, but it usually boils down to the fact they havn't bothered to read the manual, nuff said.

Anyway credit where credit is due, so far I am pleased with what I have found it can do and I am sure it is capable of a lot more. I find the MIDI method of controlling breaks, intros etc. and there 'intensity' very clever and intuitive, I am finding it a lot easier to build up drum tracks as I go using MDrummer than anything else I have. To be fair I am only using it for its rhythm generating capabilities as I use SD2 and BFD3 for the actual kits, but it is useful to have the built in kits for a quick set-up.

I actually wonder if they would have better sales by having a stripped down version without the kits as most people do seem to have their own favourites they want to stick to. Based on what I have seen so far I would have payed £80/100 just for the bits I use.

[blyt]

Yeah interesting post.
I also have jamstix but find it a nightmare to get my head around.
As soon as i work out how to do something i forget again next time i use it!!

I'd be interested in a stripped down version with just the rhythm generating capabilities of MDrummer
to trigger the drum VI's i use as well. Last time i tried the demo i'm not sure it had a midi out activated (Only on paid version) so i couldn't tell how well it worked with my other drum VI's.

However the upcoming EZdrummer 2 seems to have a pretty good concept for generating drum parts,
so looking forward to that...

[FretBuzz]

The demo version does have a MIDI output as I tested it before buying the Large version. It was a lot easier to use than I thought, I was expecting to have to set it up for MIDI out but after posting in the Reaper forum found I only had to add it in as a VST and select MIDI out on Global settings.

Not sure the new EZDrummer will generate rhythms, I think it just uses predefined MIDI files like the old version.

[MeldaProduction]

The demo & small version both have MIDI output, the problem most likely will be the routing in your host. That's why I'm hesitating about the stripped version - too many hosts have difficulties with routing MIDI (and side-chains too...).

And about the documentation - after the major update for effects, which will introduce new docs for the whole set of more than 70 effects, there will be a major update for MDrummer too and shall include docs too. How deep, that's a question. As I said, to explain everything in this huge piece of software, it would need hunderds of pages...

[blyt]

Thanks guys.
I'll try out the demo again - was a while ago i last looked at it!

[goldglob]

...How deep, that's a question. As I said, to explain everything in this huge piece of software, it would need hundreds of pages...

I think part of the difficulty would be that the skills needed to be a good 'teacher' are completely different from those needed to be a genius developer. The developer already knows how it all works and often can't see where the learner is likely to be confused.
It's a hard one.

[MeldaProduction]

Yep, that's a big trouble

[FretBuzz]

...How deep, that's a question. As I said, to explain everything in this huge piece of software, it would need hundreds of pages...

I think part of the difficulty would be that the skills needed to be a good 'teacher' are completely different from those needed to be a genius developer. The developer already knows how it all works and often can't see where the learner is likely to be confused.
It's a hard one.

I agree - also coders aren't always the best at designing the user experience either e.g GUI/workflow etc, not saying MDrummer is bad, just a comment.

So back to the docs, if the developer thinks it needs a manual of 100's of pages then I think he has justified the absolute need for a manual. If it is that complex then how on earth is anyone expected to do without one. I use Reaper/BFD3/SD2 among other things and I am constantly referring to the manuals when I need to know how to do something or want to find out if I can do something - it is really annoying to have to stop what you are doing, send a question to a forum and then hope somebody answers it.

So to my next question, I am trying to generate some latin style percussion rhythms using purely percussion instruments, I have no std drums in my kit (kick, snares etc.) - I have written my own essential beat (using bongos) but but when I generate the rhythms it insists on creating rhythms utilising snare, hi-hats etc, even though I do not have them present in the kit - how do I make sure that the rhythms generated only use drums in my kit.

[goldglob]

Loops have Drum tracks but they don't necessarily correlate with the drumsets you set up in Quick Setup or Drumset editor. You have to set them up separately.
To get in the ball park: Quick setup/Selector/ Drumset/ Percussion/Percussion 1.

Generator> Load button> Conga.
Advanced settings> see which boxes (of the loop directory structure) have been ticked (you can tick and untick whatever). Another part of this particular generator setting (conga) is that the base rhythm 'percussion/template' has been chosen (MD uses the name 'template' for folders containing lots of loops), but you could now choose something else.

Generate all. Open editor tab. Check the drum tracks. If some are not sounding you'll have to go into Drumset editor and add the missing ones to the drum list. Or, you might not want certain tracks, so delete them. Go back and forth, edit your drum tracks, correlate them to your drumset. Now save that drumset and save your rhythm. Next time you want this kind of thing you can load it all.

Furthermore, you can now save all your edited loops into the loop directory (Rhythm editor> Edit> import/ export button) and then point MD to them (tick those boxes) next time you want to generate something similar.

[FretBuzz]

Thanks again, I will check out later.