Speaking about fm possibilities in Bazilie.

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KVRian
727 posts since 8 Apr, 2012 from planet Earth

Post Fri May 23, 2014 3:59 am

Hello guys, i came from NI FM8. The program is pretty old but what i really liked about it is that u can fine adjust Amplitude,Pitch levels for each oscilator. So basicly i could custom draw graph by wich it will folow.
I lloked at Bazilie gui and it does not look like it is possible, it just have 4 old style Envelop generators with 4 predefined sliders.
Do u think guys it would be amazing that Uhe added option that i could change this old syle envelops to high res digital envelops where u can custom draw what u want?!!
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Urs
u-he
25624 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Post Fri May 23, 2014 4:11 am

You can use the Mapping Generators as envelopes, e.g. by tracking a Ramp

That's the beauty of a fully patchable modular synth. You can build complex behaviour out of simple modules.

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KVRian

Topic Starter

727 posts since 8 Apr, 2012 from planet Earth

Post Fri May 23, 2014 4:13 am

And also i think 4 envelops is to little.
At list 8.
1 for pitch and one for amp for each of 4 oscilators...
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KVRian

Topic Starter

727 posts since 8 Apr, 2012 from planet Earth

Post Fri May 23, 2014 4:15 am

Urs wrote:You can use the Mapping Generators as envelopes, e.g. by tracking a Ramp

That's the beauty of a fully patchable modular synth. You can build complex behaviour out of simple modules.
I see, but how many of them are? Are there at list 8 of them?
So i can use 1 for amp, 1 for pitch for each of 4 oscilators...
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Urs
u-he
25624 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Post Fri May 23, 2014 4:18 am

chilly7 wrote:And also i think 4 envelops is to little.
At list 8.
1 for pitch and one for amp for each of 4 oscilators...
I bet that in any serious preset using this configuration, one envelope can be replaced by a Ramp Generator.

Limitations are not always a disadvantage in a modular snythesizer. They can be a strength.

Bazille does not try to be FM7/8. And I know a dozen possibilities in Bazille that FM7/8 can't do. So there's no point for Bazille to try to be similar.

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KVRian

Topic Starter

727 posts since 8 Apr, 2012 from planet Earth

Post Fri May 23, 2014 5:45 am

Urs wrote:
chilly7 wrote:And also i think 4 envelops is to little.
At list 8.
1 for pitch and one for amp for each of 4 oscilators...
I bet that in any serious preset using this configuration, one envelope can be replaced by a Ramp Generator.

Limitations are not always a disadvantage in a modular snythesizer. They can be a strength.

Bazille does not try to be FM7/8. And I know a dozen possibilities in Bazille that FM7/8 can't do. So there's no point for Bazille to try to be similar.
Yes agree Bazillie should not be the same as FM8, but i think in order to make true FM capabilitues in Bazilie, so u can creat any FM sound, custom graphical envelop for pitch and amplitude must be present for each of osciletors!!! :)

Again i am not saying that Bazilie must be the same as FM8, i am just requesting a particular feature and i pointed where it is well done.
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KVRAF
18677 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Fri May 23, 2014 9:14 am

chilly7 wrote:
Urs wrote:
chilly7 wrote:And also i think 4 envelops is to little.
At list 8.
1 for pitch and one for amp for each of 4 oscilators...
I bet that in any serious preset using this configuration, one envelope can be replaced by a Ramp Generator.

Limitations are not always a disadvantage in a modular snythesizer. They can be a strength.

Bazille does not try to be FM7/8. And I know a dozen possibilities in Bazille that FM7/8 can't do. So there's no point for Bazille to try to be similar.
Yes agree Bazillie should not be the same as FM8, but i think in order to make true FM capabilitues in Bazilie, so u can creat any FM sound, custom graphical envelop for pitch and amplitude must be present for each of osciletors!!! :)

Again i am not saying that Bazilie must be the same as FM8, i am just requesting a particular feature and i pointed where it is well done.
There are 4 envelopes, 2 ramp generators and 2 mod mappers... you also have 2 lfo's and the sequencer which can be multiplied with an envelope or ramp to create further independent envelope shapes. Then you have the quantizer, rectifiers, inverters and lag generators.

The modulation possibilities in Bazille are far more than they first seem. It does take a bit of different thinking and then it is quite exciting all the possibilities for combining signals in ways you simply cannot in the usual synth type configuration. 1 envelope is not just one envelope. It can be multiple simultaneous shapes.

Then of course Bazille also has 4 filters, with 2 of them allowing complex and arbitrary filter feedback loops. Then each Osc is also complex and can start with waveforms that would require multiple operators to duplicate.

KVRist
488 posts since 2 May, 2002 from Kalispell, MT

Post Fri May 23, 2014 9:34 am

also, the ability to use the same mod source on multiple destinations.

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KVRian

Topic Starter

727 posts since 8 Apr, 2012 from planet Earth

Post Fri May 23, 2014 10:03 am

pdxindy wrote:
chilly7 wrote:
Urs wrote:
chilly7 wrote:And also i think 4 envelops is to little.
At list 8.
1 for pitch and one for amp for each of 4 oscilators...
I bet that in any serious preset using this configuration, one envelope can be replaced by a Ramp Generator.

Limitations are not always a disadvantage in a modular snythesizer. They can be a strength.

Bazille does not try to be FM7/8. And I know a dozen possibilities in Bazille that FM7/8 can't do. So there's no point for Bazille to try to be similar.
Yes agree Bazillie should not be the same as FM8, but i think in order to make true FM capabilitues in Bazilie, so u can creat any FM sound, custom graphical envelop for pitch and amplitude must be present for each of osciletors!!! :)

Again i am not saying that Bazilie must be the same as FM8, i am just requesting a particular feature and i pointed where it is well done.
There are 4 envelopes, 2 ramp generators and 2 mod mappers... you also have 2 lfo's and the sequencer which can be multiplied with an envelope or ramp to create further independent envelope shapes. Then you have the quantizer, rectifiers, inverters and lag generators.

The modulation possibilities in Bazille are far more than they first seem. It does take a bit of different thinking and then it is quite exciting all the possibilities for combining signals in ways you simply cannot in the usual synth type configuration. 1 envelope is not just one envelope. It can be multiple simultaneous shapes.

Then of course Bazille also has 4 filters, with 2 of them allowing complex and arbitrary filter feedback loops. Then each Osc is also complex and can start with waveforms that would require multiple operators to duplicate.
Nobody deny that Bazilie has some seriouse and complex features and most importently top of the line sound quality but what i ask is not there, and with that features what i ask will make Bazzzilie a full tool for making FM sounds!!!
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Beware the Quoth
29370 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Post Fri May 23, 2014 10:09 am

So, basically a second "Hey Urs, why dont you change all your stuff and make it into something else" thread from the same poster?
John Titor died for your sins!

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KVRAF
5231 posts since 20 Jul, 2010

Post Fri May 23, 2014 12:01 pm

There's only one solution to this dilemma: Get both Bazille and FM8. They're both completely different beasts and both great bits of kit.

Bazille's design brief is completely different to FM8. FM8 has a fixed architecture, meaning compromises have been made which allows excesses in other areas (lots of envelopes). On the flip side, Bazille is completely open-ended, and everything runs at audio rate. I'm no programming expert but I'd imagine computing eight envelopes for each voice plus all the other stuff that Bazille has running would just be unfeasible.

That's the logical side to the argument. The intuitive side is that limitations force you down different investigative routes, for example, making you think "modularly", using one module for multiple modulations, which in turn gives cohesiveness to the sound. It also forces you to learn new "tricks" which in turn may create unheard of sounds.

Look at the limitations of the SID chip. 3 note polyphony, you want drums and bass so you have one note for chords. What do you do? Play a really fast arpeggio, resulting in a "spongy", artifacted facsimile of a chord. The resultant sound is now sought after in it's own right.
http://sendy.bandcamp.com/releases < My new album at Bandcamp! Now pay what you like!

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KVRAF
4036 posts since 23 May, 2004 from Bad Vilbel, Germany

Post Fri May 23, 2014 12:48 pm

^what Sendy wrote. :tu:

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KVRAF
18677 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Fri May 23, 2014 2:43 pm

chilly7 wrote: Nobody deny that Bazilie has some seriouse and complex features and most importently top of the line sound quality but what i ask is not there, and with that features what i ask will make Bazzzilie a full tool for making FM sounds!!!
You: I want more than 4 envelopes

My Reply: There are already more than 4 envelopes

You: But I want more than 4 envelopes

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KVRian

Topic Starter

727 posts since 8 Apr, 2012 from planet Earth

Post Fri May 23, 2014 11:38 pm

Sendy wrote:There's only one solution to this dilemma: Get both Bazille and FM8. They're both completely different beasts and both great bits of kit.

Bazille's design brief is completely different to FM8. FM8 has a fixed architecture, meaning compromises have been made which allows excesses in other areas (lots of envelopes). On the flip side, Bazille is completely open-ended, and everything runs at audio rate. I'm no programming expert but I'd imagine computing eight envelopes for each voice plus all the other stuff that Bazille has running would just be unfeasible.

That's the logical side to the argument. The intuitive side is that limitations force you down different investigative routes, for example, making you think "modularly", using one module for multiple modulations, which in turn gives cohesiveness to the sound. It also forces you to learn new "tricks" which in turn may create unheard of sounds.

Look at the limitations of the SID chip. 3 note polyphony, you want drums and bass so you have one note for chords. What do you do? Play a really fast arpeggio, resulting in a "spongy", artifacted facsimile of a chord. The resultant sound is now sought after in it's own right.
Again i reped, i am not saying Bazzilie should be the same as FM8, i am just requesting a particular feature and i pointed where it is well done.
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KVRian

Topic Starter

727 posts since 8 Apr, 2012 from planet Earth

Post Fri May 23, 2014 11:42 pm

pdxindy wrote:
chilly7 wrote: Nobody deny that Bazilie has some seriouse and complex features and most importently top of the line sound quality but what i ask is not there, and with that features what i ask will make Bazzzilie a full tool for making FM sounds!!!
You: I want more than 4 envelopes

My Reply: There are already more than 4 envelopes

You: But I want more than 4 envelopes
U did not read what i asked.
I requested a fully draweble custum graphical envelopes for pitch and amplitude for each osciletor. 2x4=8
The example of this can find in NI FM8
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