Maybe i am off but is the top end of Bazille not quite as perfect as Diva?

[ddeez]

I just bought bazille recently and i love it but the impression i get, even when i turn on HQ mode is that that unreal sheen from Diva that is unmatched in any other vst i've ever heard is not quite there in Bazille. Is there any chance of having a higher oversampling feature or some other thing that could bring the richness and fullness of the top + mid range of Diva to Bazille?


Urs do u know what i'm getting at at all? Diva might be my favorite synth of all time and a lot of it has to do with just the pure sound of it. It sounds as close to perfect as i've heard a vst sound. Let me know your thoughts please. Thanks!!

[V0RT3X]

Bazille is not attempting to emulate that sheen your hearing.

[ddeez]

I guess what i'm saying is i don't think the top end and upper mid range sounds quite as good. And i was wondering if Urs had any comments on that. He always sheds great light on any question i've asked.

[ddeez]

also i just want to say again: I really love Bazille. Amazing synth that i'm already using all the time. That's just my only issue with it.

[Touch The Universe]

Where does this synth excel? good for edm? Heard video demo but just playing sound fx type sounds for an hour that didnt peak my interest?

[whyterabbyt]

Heard video demo but just playing sound fx type sounds for an hour that didnt peak my interest?

There is no official video demo. Some random nobody twonking about with the beta isnt really a great metric for what its capable of.

[Touch The Universe]

Are there presets for the demo yet to hear what its capable of?

[whyterabbyt]

Are there presets for the demo yet to hear what its capable of?

Bazille itself is still in beta,its not a demo version; when its actually properly released, there'll be presets, and a working demo.

In the meantime these presets exist:

http://www.u-he.com/PatchLib/bazille.html

but they're from earlier beta versions so may need tweaked as per Urs' comments elsewhere.

[Gonga]

I haven't noticed what the OP is on about, but I will give another listen. My guess is the most likely "culprit" would be the VCOs just sound different. It's been widely discussed that contrary to what many say, the oscillators have as much, if not more, to do with the overall "sound quality" effect as the filters. DIVA has the Moog, Roland and Korg VCO sounds (and now others as well), with which we are so fondly familiar. I think it's safe to say that fact also biases us toward enjoying DIVA all the more. Many take the position that the Minimoog D sound has more (or at least as much) to do with the VCOs than the filters, and I think it's safe to say that there are a lot of people who greatly adore that particular sound, to the extent that nothing else quite seems to hold a candle.

My own attraction to the Moogs, Oberheims and Rolands which I have owned had more to do with the oscillator sounds than the filters, though I don't have preference. I like to choose oscillators for their particular sound palette, and prefer having access to multiple VCOs. Another reason why I adore U-He synths, though I am guilty of having not adequately explored wavetable synthesis yet.

We are much less familiar with the Bazille oscillators, so they sound "funny" though imo, great.

[chk071]

It's been widely discussed that contrary to what many say, the oscillators have as much, if not more, to do with the overall "sound quality" effect as the filters.

I tend to disagree. I read pretty frequently from dev's oft soft synths that they nail the sound of analog oscillators to 99% or so. Also, every 2nd subtractive soft synths oscillators are modelled after the minimoog oscillators afaik. What often for me makes the difference ARE the filters. There's the whole bandwidth on soft synths, from total crap, to really juicy, soft clean, linear, non linear, whatever. I think you can easily add the analog character of instability or noise on the oscillators by adding the appropriate stuff, but you will have problems mimicking the specific character of a filter, when it sounds different. At least that's the way i feel it's like.

[Sendy]

It's down to taste, but I'm on the side of the oscillators being the most important part of a synth. The filter is responsible for what you don't hear, plus the resonance, which is a small bandwidth. It's also capable of distorting the entire oscillator signal, but usually in a very subtle way. On the other hand, the oscillator, if it sounds bad, there's no way to hide it, apart from using the filter a lot to carve away problem areas, but that's missing the point, because a filter should be used to make sounds, not cover defects in the oscillator.

Basically, the oscillator is the entire basis of every sound you make, and you can't polish a turd. The filters come a close second, though, and there's not much in it.

Case in point: Quite an old synth called Unique by Sugar Bytes. It has a great filter, but it's oscillators sound, to use an Americanism, like ass. Big big aliasing, jaggies on the edge of the waveform, low end mud, it's all there, and those great filters can't save it. Thankfully Sugar Bytes have improved their oscillator models since then - Cyclop sounds a lot better for it.

I should also point out, Bazille is currently the most aliasing of all u-he synths (in my estimation), which might be why the high end sounds a bit frazzly sometimes. For me, that's countered by the fact that the non-aliasing part of the signal sounds *really* good, it has a sharp, vivid, high-def sound that I've never heard before. The aliasing isn't *bad*, but it would be cool to get rid of it somehow.

[whyterabbyt]

Also, every 2nd subtractive soft synths oscillators are modelled after the minimoog oscillators afaik.

there's a lot with 3 oscillators, thats about as far as that goes, IMO. Most of them that do analog-stylee oscillators, have sinewaves and PWM, for example, so start extending on the MM somewhat. 2- and 4- oscillators seem just as common.
Once you get to the stuff that leverages not being analog a bit more, though, like the PD and FM territory that Bazille is in, oscillators make a lot of difference.

I think you can easily add the analog character of instability or noise on the oscillators by adding the appropriate stuff,

You mean just like you can easily add the analog character of instability or noise on the filters by adding the 'appropriate stuff'?

[chk071]

Yes, but can you really model the behavior and sound of the filter that way? I don't think so. What i was trying to say is that it's probably easier to mimic the sound of the oscillator, than the sound of the filter. If the resonance behavior of the filter is not the same, there's not much you can do really imo.

[whyterabbyt]

Yes, but can you really model the behavior and sound of the filter that way? I don't think so. What i was trying to say is that it's probably easier to mimic the sound of the oscillator, than the sound of the filter.

Yeah, but what Im saying is that, in the same way that its 'harder' to model, say, the resonance behaviour of an FM'd filter properly (cf the ZDF hullaballoo) its also 'harder' to model complex oscillator interactions properly.
And its not exactly unknown that 'simple' mimics of filter behaviour get used just about as frequently as equally 'simple' mimics of basic analogue oscillators.

[3ee]

I should also point out, Bazille is currently the most aliasing of all u-he synths (in my estimation), which might be why the high end sounds a bit frazzly sometimes. For me, that's countered by the fact that the non-aliasing part of the signal sounds *really* good, it has a sharp, vivid, high-def sound that I've never heard before. The aliasing isn't *bad*, but it would be cool to get rid of it somehow.

Exactly! Maybe they'll replace the HQ switch with similar option to what Diva has.

Actually, I was pleasantly surprised with Bazille's osc sound character. It sounds great to my ears, has that thick-plastic feel (especially noticeable with modulation) with some white plastic "vintage" oxide on top.