T6: Rendering vs. Exporting -- not the same ?!?

[aTallGuyNH]

I have an odd situation (at least I think it is odd).

Working on a laptop, so not a lot of CPU to go around, so I rely on rendering quite a bit. Current project has files 44.1k @ 24-bits. When I render to these same settings, it substantially changes the sound, and not for the better. I'm not sure what exactly it is doing -- hard to describe, but it seems:

• Louder
  More saturated
  Muffled/muddy

I don't have the greatest ears, but I'm not detecting any distortion per se -- i.e. no crackling and such.

If I export though (no normalization, dithering enabled) and import the export back into the session, it sounds identical to the tracks that I was trying to bounce/render... i.e. the exact result desired when rendering.

Until recently I was a T4 user, and I had a similar issue there, although I detected it as "gets louder so I have to decrease the gain on the rendered track". This may very well have been an ear issue though, meaning that I suspect that the three issues listed above were there in T4 as well, but I wasn't listening a carefully as I should have.

Any ideas what might be causing this? I can certainly just export and re-import, but that is a pain and sucks up a fair amount of time given how often I need to render in order to manage the CPU cycles. I figure I must be doing something wrong!

Happy to post audio samples and screenshots of the settings I'm using if that will help.

[Peter Widdicombe]

I must admit I normally only EXPORT a full/completed work with all tracks, but I would guess you have different audio settings (i.e. normalization, compression, etc) set up between rendering and exporting.

[rlindsey0]

As I understand Tracktion to be working, all exporting involves rendering, in that it involves the creation of a new file from an old one, but not all rendering is exporting (you have different options in the latter).

Forgive me if I'm suggesting something you've already considered, but my guess is that in one of your scenarios, you have the track *passing through filters* when you make the new file, and in the other scenario you don't. There are reasons why you might prefer one or the other setting in a given situation, but it's important to know that the option is there and what it does.

If you're concerned about saving processing power, it might be that the option you really want is to *freeze* the track rather than either render or export it. This saves you some CPU cycles while allowing you later to *unfreeze* the track and change the settings if you like.

[aTallGuyNH]

I must admit I normally only EXPORT a full/completed work with all tracks, but I would guess you have different audio settings (i.e. normalization, compression, etc) set up between rendering and exporting.

Thanks for your reply Peter (and rlindsey0!). That would be the rational conclusion, indeed.

See attached screenshots of settings though... They both say "Render", but the 2nd one is the Export dialog box.

Only difference between these two screenshots is Stereo vs. Mono & dithering being enabled, because I was in the middle of testing. I've tried both stereo & mono as well as with/without dithering and it doesn't make a difference (the source is mono drum tracks, so "Stereo" doesn't actually make it stereo).

Bottom line: Export works great, but Render doesn't (and yes, rlindsey0 -- I understand the difference should be academic, and I have checked my settings carefully).

If I turn down the gain on the rendered version by ~12dB the waveforms become roughly the same size, but it's clear from both the waveforms and the sound that a ton of information is being lost.

[aTallGuyNH]

If you're concerned about saving processing power, it might be that the option you really want is to *freeze* the track rather than either render or export it. This saves you some CPU cycles while allowing you later to *unfreeze* the track and change the settings if you like.

I've tried that, but find that it is much too slow for my liking, the reason being that there is but one "Freeze" for the entire track. If I make a minor change, I must wait for everything that is frozen on the session to be re-frozen. And, it's a catch-22 anyway... Everything I have frozen is frozen because I don't have the processing power to play it in real time with the rest of the session. How can I then edit it? Unless I then freeze the rest of the session instead, which would be crazy.

My alternative approach is to render various groups/folders (drums, keys, lead vox, backing vox, etc.) separately. That way I can make changes and then create a new rendered track very quickly, discarding the old rendered track. This worked well for me in T4.

Maybe freezing is more flexible than I realize and I'm just not using it properly?

[rlindsey0]

The only other thing I could suggest is to check your master volume setting down in the lower right. IIRC Export goes through the master 2-buss, but rendering a track in place doesn't. Try right clicking on the master out and disabling it (if that's even possible; I'm not 100% sure it is) and see what you get then.

I would also unclick the Stereo box in the upper example. Even if it doesn't make a difference, it might be good to eliminate as many variables as you can.

If none of that helps ... well, I tried!