DAW Add/Switch, From Sonar to...?

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KVRer
15 posts since 29 Dec, 2015

Post Tue Dec 29, 2015 7:23 am

Hello everyone! I had an account eons ago (don´t know what happened to it!) Glad to be back.

I´d been having this bothering me lately, i´m using Sonar 8.5, and never, ever got to like the newers X´s versions and even less the monthly license model (and the drop of Track Layers was a huge let down amongst other things in my workflow)
With the advent of full 64bits in OS´s and plugs, VST3, etc, now Sonar 8.5 its showing it´s age; so, for all of you, what other DAW is close to this version of Sonar in terms of Workflow, functionallity etc. ( aka, wich other DAW will be less painfull to choose and quickly learn as a second DAW and/or replacement)

I post this here... cos´... Cake forum... you know :roll:

Thks everyone!

lfm
KVRAF
5745 posts since 22 Jan, 2005 from Sweden

Post Tue Dec 29, 2015 7:52 am

I have current Sonar Artist, and ran X3 also entry level before that - and there has always been track lanes/layers. Certainly one thing I need, and why I was never satisfied with Cubase Elements.

Before that I ran Sonar 8.5.3 and 4.0 Studio and switched was it 2013 with X3 released.

Transition from 8.x was not so hard, but some docking operations for mixer compared to before separate window bothered a bit. But after running on two monitors I get mixer on separate monitor and need only dock midi editor below track view.

About monthly updates - there is nothing that force you to update monthly. You can do as before and update last month your subscription expires - so once a year. Previous Sonar only has 1-4 updates with bugfixes in the first months anyway - so cannot see what the problem is.

What is nice about Sonar is that you can get away with entry level version Artist without so serious cutdown in features - like Cubase does. I had to go Cubase Pro to superseed Sonar Artist.

Current Sonar Professional/Platinum also have patchpoints that extend the limited routing options in previous Sonar, and stretching of audio etc.

Don't know how deep your dissatisfaction goes with Cakewalk - it sounded pretty deep - but alternatives I tested:
Mixcraft - still VST2 though - but nice workflow.
Reaper 5 - VST3 - ran Reaper 3/4 only, but imagine it is still really good.
Cubase Artist 8.5 - has track lanes, but nothing like archives which replace track templates in Sonar.
Cubase Pro 8.5 - also have track archives and really good notation as well and plenty headroom with features.

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KVRian
608 posts since 27 Jul, 2010

Post Tue Dec 29, 2015 8:09 am

I switched from 8.5 to Studio One 2 Pro.. and just recently upgraded to SO3.

You can demo it for 30 days to see if it will work for you. A couple weeks into the demo, I made the switch.

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KVRAF
4644 posts since 1 Aug, 2005 from Warszawa, Poland

Post Tue Dec 29, 2015 8:28 am

logan_4600 wrote:I´d been having this bothering me lately, i´m using Sonar 8.5, and never, ever got to like the newers X´s versions and even less the monthly license model
Monthly license is optional and you can upgrade to Sonar Artist for $25 until the end of year, I think (for regular, not time limited license).

KVRer

Topic Starter

15 posts since 29 Dec, 2015

Post Tue Dec 29, 2015 8:36 am

lfm wrote:I have current Sonar Artist, and ran X3 also entry level before that - and there has always been track lanes/layers. Certainly one thing I need, and why I was never satisfied with Cubase Elements.

Before that I ran Sonar 8.5.3 and 4.0 Studio and switched was it 2013 with X3 released.

Transition from 8.x was not so hard, but some docking operations for mixer compared to before separate window bothered a bit. But after running on two monitors I get mixer on separate monitor and need only dock midi editor below track view.

About monthly updates - there is nothing that force you to update monthly. You can do as before and update last month your subscription expires - so once a year. Previous Sonar only has 1-4 updates with bugfixes in the first months anyway - so cannot see what the problem is.

What is nice about Sonar is that you can get away with entry level version Artist without so serious cutdown in features - like Cubase does. I had to go Cubase Pro to superseed Sonar Artist.

Current Sonar Professional/Platinum also have patchpoints that extend the limited routing options in previous Sonar, and stretching of audio etc.

Don't know how deep your dissatisfaction goes with Cakewalk - it sounded pretty deep - but alternatives I tested:
Mixcraft - still VST2 though - but nice workflow.
Reaper 5 - VST3 - ran Reaper 3/4 only, but imagine it is still really good.
Cubase Artist 8.5 - has track lanes, but nothing like archives which replace track templates in Sonar.
Cubase Pro 8.5 - also have track archives and really good notation as well and plenty headroom with features.
I really, reaaallyyy love it still. But it is really not getting along well with Win8.1x64, (neither did it with 8 and think with 10 will be a mess) it does still have lot of random bugs, and issues with multithreading, no vst3, etc ...
I did test X´s (X1 and X3) versions, and take lanes are not by any stretch Track Layers,wich, in my workflow they are still fundamental. And, on the other hand, they changed almost every aspect of the interface, hotkeys, everything! It felt like learning a new DAW (i wanted to avoid that, don´t have that much spare time)
What you say about suscription is true tough. Either way, from the ones you mentioned, wich felt more Sonar´ish?

KVRer

Topic Starter

15 posts since 29 Dec, 2015

Post Tue Dec 29, 2015 8:37 am

progtronic wrote:I switched from 8.5 to Studio One 2 Pro.. and just recently upgraded to SO3.

You can demo it for 30 days to see if it will work for you. A couple weeks into the demo, I made the switch.
And, how it went the transition in your experience?

KVRer

Topic Starter

15 posts since 29 Dec, 2015

Post Tue Dec 29, 2015 8:41 am

Zombie Queen wrote:
logan_4600 wrote:I´d been having this bothering me lately, i´m using Sonar 8.5, and never, ever got to like the newers X´s versions and even less the monthly license model
Monthly license is optional and you can upgrade to Sonar Artist for $25 until the end of year, I think (for regular, not time limited license).
Yes! thank you guys for pointing that out, still, anyway, the license model is not as much troublesome as the transition in itself and the lack of layers. Take Lanes still have lot of issues, and, even without them, they do not behave like Layers.You know, it is really difficult to re-develop a workflow after all this time

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KVRAF
4644 posts since 1 Aug, 2005 from Warszawa, Poland

Post Tue Dec 29, 2015 9:03 am

logan_4600 wrote:You know, it is really difficult to re-develop a workflow after all this time
True that. On the other hand, if you switch to new DAW you will need to re-develop workflow anyway.

lfm
KVRAF
5745 posts since 22 Jan, 2005 from Sweden

Post Tue Dec 29, 2015 9:08 am

logan_4600 wrote: I did test X´s (X1 and X3) versions, and take lanes are not by any stretch Track Layers,wich, in my workflow they are still fundamental. And, on the other hand, they changed almost every aspect of the interface, hotkeys, everything! It felt like learning a new DAW (i wanted to avoid that, don´t have that much spare time)
What you say about suscription is true tough. Either way, from the ones you mentioned, wich felt more Sonar´ish?
God no, I talk about layers - the lanes of clips on any track you can show/hide - mute etc.

Then you've got lanes for takes/comping and automation etc. That's something else.

And don't confuse subscription annually with PayOneTime or what they call it. You can choose just as before - you pay right away for a year and you own everything up to the last release before it expires - and can choose when you do actual updates, every update is ackumulative and just one update is enough for a full years if you prefer.

They also have this subscription monthly - with monthly downpayments and stuff, but that can roll back and unless you pay a year and version you run rolls back.

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KVRian
608 posts since 27 Jul, 2010

Post Tue Dec 29, 2015 9:13 am

logan_4600 wrote:
progtronic wrote:I switched from 8.5 to Studio One 2 Pro.. and just recently upgraded to SO3.

You can demo it for 30 days to see if it will work for you. A couple weeks into the demo, I made the switch.
And, how it went the transition in your experience?
I went from a buggy, crashing Sonar (every 10-15mins at times) to a never crashing (still has never locked up or crashed on me..) Studio One.

Drag and drop is a great feature in S1.. and the workflow in general is just really intuitive and nice. I don't think I've ever had to crack open the manual for anything.

KVRer

Topic Starter

15 posts since 29 Dec, 2015

Post Tue Dec 29, 2015 9:17 am

Zombie Queen wrote:
logan_4600 wrote:You know, it is really difficult to re-develop a workflow after all this time
True that. On the other hand, if you switch to new DAW you will need to re-develop workflow anyway.
Well, a nice one here, do i re-learn my ´actual´ DAW, or do i go and learn a second one?...

KVRer

Topic Starter

15 posts since 29 Dec, 2015

Post Tue Dec 29, 2015 9:23 am

lfm wrote:
logan_4600 wrote: I did test X´s (X1 and X3) versions, and take lanes are not by any stretch Track Layers,wich, in my workflow they are still fundamental. And, on the other hand, they changed almost every aspect of the interface, hotkeys, everything! It felt like learning a new DAW (i wanted to avoid that, don´t have that much spare time)
What you say about suscription is true tough. Either way, from the ones you mentioned, wich felt more Sonar´ish?
God no, I talk about layers - the lanes of clips on any track you can show/hide - mute etc.

Then you've got lanes for takes/comping and automation etc. That's something else.

And don't confuse subscription annually with PayOneTime or what they call it. You can choose just as before - you pay right away for a year and you own everything up to the last release before it expires - and can choose when you do actual updates, every update is ackumulative and just one update is enough for a full years if you prefer.

They also have this subscription monthly - with monthly downpayments and stuff, but that can roll back and unless you pay a year and version you run rolls back.
Let me get this right (to know we are talking about the same thing )
In sonar 8.5 i have Track Layers, where you go, record as much as you like, overlap clips in a same track, and then, when you activate Track Layers for that track, it auto-sorts them to fit. Then you can mute, move, crossfade etc. all in the very same Track.
Since Sonar X1 (and in X3 too) they removed Track Layers for Take Lanes, where, if activated in a track, every single new clip creates its own ´lane´ (sub-track) and they cannot be auto sorted, or cleaned, etc.
Is there a third option in newer versions? Are we talking about the same thing, don´t we?

KVRer

Topic Starter

15 posts since 29 Dec, 2015

Post Tue Dec 29, 2015 9:26 am

progtronic wrote:
logan_4600 wrote:
progtronic wrote:I switched from 8.5 to Studio One 2 Pro.. and just recently upgraded to SO3.

You can demo it for 30 days to see if it will work for you. A couple weeks into the demo, I made the switch.
And, how it went the transition in your experience?
I went from a buggy, crashing Sonar (every 10-15mins at times) to a never crashing (still has never locked up or crashed on me..) Studio One.

Drag and drop is a great feature in S1.. and the workflow in general is just really intuitive and nice. I don't think I've ever had to crack open the manual for anything.
Well, that made the transition feel happier for you. I am happy with the product now, but, have some reservations about the near future of it. ( with, some spare actual issues mentioned before )

lfm
KVRAF
5745 posts since 22 Jan, 2005 from Sweden

Post Tue Dec 29, 2015 9:45 pm

logan_4600 wrote:
Let me get this right (to know we are talking about the same thing )
In sonar 8.5 i have Track Layers, where you go, record as much as you like, overlap clips in a same track, and then, when you activate Track Layers for that track, it auto-sorts them to fit. Then you can mute, move, crossfade etc. all in the very same Track.
Since Sonar X1 (and in X3 too) they removed Track Layers for Take Lanes, where, if activated in a track, every single new clip creates its own ´lane´ (sub-track) and they cannot be auto sorted, or cleaned, etc.
Is there a third option in newer versions? Are we talking about the same thing, don´t we?
I think we are close, almost on the same page - but you are solely thinking loop recording and don't like the new take/comp handling.

I have not seen a daw that do as old Sonar did.

I think Reaper with free item placement and play all items setting are the closest - and but don't think take handling do it automatically as old Sonar. Otherwise overlap of audio clips is a no-no everywhere as far as I recall. Cubase allow on midi though.

I kind of like the new style of comp lanes - more organized.
You get so many clips in one place with old style.

KVRAF
5017 posts since 27 Jul, 2001 from Tarpon Springs, Florida, USA

Post Tue Dec 29, 2015 10:02 pm

Sonar was one of the DAW's seriously considered along with Reaper, FL Studio and Cubase.
S1 had fallen to the bottom of the list but the current -30% forced me to review it.
Sonar had all the features specs I had wanted but in the end S1 won out for the workflow.
Then I decided to buy it and it looks like it will be number one DAW.
I will get S1 to host FL Studio as a VST and see how combo works out.

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