Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - 1.8.5 the main thread

[m-ac]

Has anyone here received replies from customer support at vengeance in the last few weeks? I've been waiting over a month now and heard nothing after sending several emails regarding a pretty important tech issue. Manuel, please can you ask Andre to get back to me, this is getting frustrating.

[Leo1999]

Really scaring to see so many unanswered questions.
Avenger is just a synth one can use for private fun in order not to violate copyright?
Ok, I see, so you can't use it for productions you want to release.
Customer service seems to be bad, so who knows whether this product will still be maintained in two years?!
Worst thing is to see that dev ignores important questions here in his own thread, whereas he immediately posts here after a new xp release.
Under these circumstances I am not going to upgrade

[Chipi]

Has anyone here received replies from customer support at vengeance in the last few weeks? I've been waiting over a month now and heard nothing after sending several emails regarding a pretty important tech issue. Manuel, please can you ask Andre to get back to me, this is getting frustrating.

Try this:

Request for Assistance with my Avenger Synth Purchase

Dear Vengeance Support Team/Manuel,

I am writing to you regarding my recent purchase of the Avenger Synth. Unfortunately, I have been experiencing some technical difficulties with the product and have tried to contact your customer service team multiple times via email without receiving a response. As a loyal customer who has invested a significant amount of money in your products, I am disappointed with the level of service that I have received.

I am reaching out to you today to request assistance with resolving my technical issues and to kindly ask that you respond to my emails as soon as possible. I believe that open communication is crucial to resolving any problems and I would greatly appreciate your attention to this matter.

I understand that as a customer, I have certain rights and protections under consumer law. If I do not receive a response or resolution to my issue, I may need to explore my legal options further. However, I would prefer to resolve this issue directly with your customer service team if at all possible.

Please let me know how I can resolve the issues that I am experiencing or provide any other relevant information that may assist me in using the product correctly.

Thank you for your time and attention to this matter. I hope that we can work together to resolve this issue and continue to have a positive customer relationship.

[Chipi]

Has anyone here received replies from customer support at vengeance in the last few weeks? I've been waiting over a month now and heard nothing after sending several emails regarding a pretty important tech issue. Manuel, please can you ask Andre to get back to me, this is getting frustrating.

Dude, understand that Manuel is very busy with finalizing the VPS version 2 project. I have written to him before and he responded the next day with a solution. It's possible that your email may have gone to his spam/junk folder and he didn't receive it. You can try sending a new email from a different email address, including your order number for VPS and any expansions that you have questions or issues with. However, I doubt they will respond if you're asking for authorization to use a specific sequence/loop or sound. Good luck.

[Chipi]

[twal]

VENGEANCE SOUND

Terms of Use
All soundsets, samples and audiodemos are copyrighted by Vengeance Sound. Reselling of any Vengeance Sound product purchased, also partially (e. g. single sounds), is prohibited.Any violation of this will be legally pursued. When ordering a Vengeance Sound product, you accept this agreement.

Don't buy it if your intention is to use it commercially, because you simply CAN'T

• You are authorized to use the Licensed Materials only for personal use.
This means that you are only allowed to use the Licensed Materials for your own personal use and not for commercial purposes.


Have fun at home!

Reselling and using the soundsets/samples is different. Not sure if you are specifying this or not in this post. If the sounds as one shots could not be used in commercial productions than this product would be an entire piece of trash. Not entirely sure what you are meaning in this post and how you are referencing these snippets of the terms. I am not worried about using the vocal phrases nor the sequences because I don't plan on commercially releasing songs/tracks that use them without some modifications; but, if the terms were we can't use anything in commercial tracks, then that would be hideous- but I don't believe that to be so, it may not be what you are saying (probably not), and I am speaking generally here for the sake of confusion about what you actually think and are expressing which is fine.

[Chipi]

VENGEANCE SOUND

Terms of Use
All soundsets, samples and audiodemos are copyrighted by Vengeance Sound. Reselling of any Vengeance Sound product purchased, also partially (e. g. single sounds), is prohibited.Any violation of this will be legally pursued. When ordering a Vengeance Sound product, you accept this agreement.

Don't buy it if your intention is to use it commercially, because you simply CAN'T

• You are authorized to use the Licensed Materials only for personal use.
This means that you are only allowed to use the Licensed Materials for your own personal use and not for commercial purposes.


Have fun at home!

Reselling and using the soundsets/samples is different. Not sure if you are specifying this or not in this post. If the sounds as one shots could not be used in commercial productions than this product would be an entire piece of trash. Not entirely sure what you are meaning in this post and how you are referencing these snippets of the terms. I am not worried about using the vocal phrases nor the sequences because I don't plan on commercially releasing songs/tracks that use them without some modifications; but, if the terms were we can't use anything in commercial tracks, then that would be hideous- but I don't believe that to be so, it may not be what you are saying (probably not), and I am speaking generally here for the sake of confusion about what you actually think and are expressing which is fine.

Anything else to add?

*Read other "Terms of Use" for example Omnisphere, you can use all the sounds that comes with it (commercially), as long as you don't profit selling their samples, Synapse Audio with Dune 3 for example the same, free to use all the sounds commercially and the expansions you would only have to name them in the credits, Avenger is another story, PERSONAL USE ONLY, and here ends my story, Happy Easter!

[zvenx]

It may be wrong choice of words though and they mean personal use as in you can't lend it to someone else....
rsp

[twal]

It may be wrong choice of words though and they mean personal use as in you can't lend it to someone else....
rsp

I think you are right. No reselling, sharing, duplicating... If you can't use a pluck in a commercial track then like I said before this product is garbage and deserves to be in the trashcan which I do not believe.

[Chipi]

It may be wrong choice of words though and they mean personal use as in you can't lend it to someone else....
rsp

I think you are right. No reselling, sharing, duplicating... If you can't use a pluck in a commercial track then like I said before this product is garbage and deserves to be in the trashcan which I do not believe.

If it were as you say, Manuel would have already come out to clarify it. You can't use the sounds commercially, the terms are clear, it happens that you accepted these Terms of Use before buying them but you didn't read them. I am a lawyer and I know what I am telling you.

[twal]

It may be wrong choice of words though and they mean personal use as in you can't lend it to someone else....
rsp

I think you are right. No reselling, sharing, duplicating... If you can't use a pluck in a commercial track then like I said before this product is garbage and deserves to be in the trashcan which I do not believe.

If it were as you say, Manuel would have already come out to clarify it. You can't use the sounds commercially, the terms are clear, it happens that you accepted these Terms of Use before buying them but you didn't read them. I am a lawyer and I know what I am telling you.

Ok. That's fine. I'm done with the conversation, thanks for your input; I'll await Manuel or somebody else's official VPS clarification.

EDIT: Other threads said Manuel won't comment anymore as it has been spoken about thoroughly, and this has been talked about on here already. I'm not going to speak on it. I suggest others go find it if they want to or search this thread which has discussed it.

[Beachboy]

What about the factory module presets? Am I allowed to use the drum loops or arp/seq presets which come with Avenger itself? If not what is the point having arp/seq presets or drum loops in a synth if I can´t use them commercially? Never heard such things before.

[noiseboyuk]

What about the factory module presets? Am I allowed to use the drum loops or arp/seq presets which come with Avenger itself? If not what is the point having arp/seq presets or drum loops in a synth if I can´t use them commercially? Never heard such things before.

It’s more common than you’d think, it’s just people don’t read EULAs. Aside from obvious vinyl lifts, I doubt any drums used anywhere would cause a real world problem though.

I remember having a spat with Spectrasonics almost 15 years ago after I bought Omnisphere. One of the big selling points then was “Sound Design”, and when I read the EULA its use for Sound Design was explicitly prohibited (use of any of their sampled soundsources has to explicitly be in a “musical context”). It felt to me then - and now - like false advertising. Result - they don’t sell it using those words now, and I got in writing that I was allowed to use it for sound design purposes productions in I worked on. I’ve heard subsequently they don’t offer this waiver any more to anyone who asks.

As for Avenger, all we have are the crumbs that Manuel has said in the past, which was iirc “common ARPs are ok, melodies are not”. There may also be issues with some sampled content such as vocals. In some recent posts this has been wildly conflated to “you cannot use Avenger in any commercial production”, which is of course nonsense.

It’s confusing (when does a melody become a melody?), legally opaque (and practically opaque - we’re really meant to search through a 900 page KVR forum for instructions on how we are allowed to use the synth?!) and messy. I’d avoid any obvious melodies or exposed and unaltered vocal samples commercially. I’d not use any SQs with complex chord arrangements baked in either. Following those guidelines I think you’d be 99.999% sure of being safe.

But it’s hardly watertight, is it? People are scared of being sued for doing something wrong, and not knowing what wrong is. I’ve long said Vengenace need to have a FAQ of this on their website. I do think it’s telling they haven’t done so - it is to their advantage that they have an over-aggressive EULA that they rarely enforce, but can do so in any case they so choose.

[ramseysounds]

I see, so you can't use it for productions you want to release.

Is that a fact or are you assuming? In any case, it would be more or less impossible to prove what synth made a sound in a song

[m-ac]

They need to start calling 'presets', 'demos'. It's a ridiculous situation and I think the reason there's no black and white answer is because absolutely no-one knows wtf is going on, developers or users.