Why the strange order of values for u-he Bazille's CV inputs?

[themagicalkamja]

Sorry for the crap title, couldn't phrase it more succinctly. What I'm asking is easy to show but a bit complicated to describe in prose. So let me try to unpack it...

Imagine a parameter which controls Osc pitch by semitones. As you modify this parameter, its value will increase/decrease in an orderly fashion, first by 1 semi, then 2 semi, then 3 semi, etc. In Bazille, this is the case for most parameters, but not for the CV inputs (FYI: every output = 1 value for every input; there are 75-76 outputs in Bazille, meaning every input has 75-76 possible values). Instead, the order of values for CV inputs seems to have no discernible order/pattern.

This can be clearly demonstrated in Ableton. Load Bazille, press "Configure", click on any input hole so Live will recognize it, then use the up arrow to move this parameter through its possible values/connections. You will see that a patch cable appears, but as you sweep through the range of values for this input parameter, the patch cable doesn't move across the UI in a sensible manner (e.g., LFO1Tri, then LFO1Sq, then LFO1Rand, Then LFO22Tri, etc.). Rather, the order seems completely random, with the patch cable jumping willy nilly through the various modules as you change the input parameter's value.

So, with that background, I have two questions:

1) Why in the world is the order so goofy? Surely there's a reason. Urs, over to you...

2) Is there any way to change this order? I'd like to map these inputs to my controller, but making connections via my controller rather than the mouse would be terribly inefficient unless the order of values is more logical. So it'd be great if between Bazille and my controller, there were something like a MIDI utility I could use to adjust the messages being sent between Bazille and my controller. I assume this is impossible, but worth asking...

[themagicalkamja]

....anyone? Didn't know this was gonna be such a stumper

[pdxindy]

maybe post in the u-he forum

[pottering]

OK, I'll bite.
Just checked in BazilleCM, and the parameters seem to be relatively well-ordered IMO, for example the "sound generators" (white noise, oscs) are all together in the first values (left in Ableton's slider), then filters, then quantizers, then envelopes, etc...

The problem you may be having is that is really hard to tweak a physical MIDI knob so it only moves one single MIDI value, to select a single value with precision.

Most likely you trying to twist just a bit but it is actually jumping multiple values, looking like it is selecting random stuff.

[Urs]

Rather, the order seems completely random, with the patch cable jumping willy nilly through the various modules as you change the input parameter's value.

Historical reasons. The top of the list represents the available sources from the 0.3 alpha version that predates the 1.0 version by several years. Then come the things that were subsequently added during the further development stages between 2012-2014.

As Bazille had been used by many people in many projects for a long time before the final feature set was complete, we had to keep it as backwards compatible as possible. Hence we had to keep the original order of sources and append the newer ones to the end.

Also, originally the cable destinations weren't automatable. Automation and MIDI Learn was added later, after the fact. On the upside, at least they *can* be automated - which isn't common in a modular synthesizer

[themagicalkamja]

Rather, the order seems completely random, with the patch cable jumping willy nilly through the various modules as you change the input parameter's value.

Historical reasons. The top of the list represents the available sources from the 0.3 alpha version that predates the 1.0 version by several years. Then come the things that were subsequently added during the further development stages between 2012-2014.

As Bazille had been used by many people in many projects for a long time before the final feature set was complete, we had to keep it as backwards compatible as possible.

I figured as much. Many seemingly bizarre choices for the internal organization of software can be explained by legacy reasons. However, I do feel that this strange order should be changed. Don't get me wrong, I love Bazille more than any other VST, but I think it would be even better if the parameter were more sensible because then you could control even the patch routings from a controller! Very few VSTs can do this.

Is there any way this can be changed, even if just by me in an ad hoc manner? Or is what you see what you're gonna get?

[whyterabbyt]

Is there any way this can be changed, even if just by me in an ad hoc manner? Or is what you see what you're gonna get?

It cant be done in a plugin without modifying and recompiling it, AFAIK. But you said you were using Live, yes? Its just about the only host I know of which can do this.

https://www.ableton.com/en/help/article ... iguration/