Racks...Senderella or Getout?

[christianmusicmaker]

Hi guys...need some help please.

Which is the best solution for a simple send for Tracktion out of these three Racks Senderella and Getout, but that will also provide the least problem with delays and tracks getting out of sync.

I think someone on this forum said that Tracktion will add a delay to each track equal to the latency setting you have whatever you do!Correct me if I am wrong.

So 1 Rack equals a 10 ms delay on a track if your latency setting is 10 ms.

I am just wondering if Get out or Senderella can avoid this problem with Racks.

I would love to use Racks as they are for me arguably the most powerful feature in Tracktion. But this delay issue is getting in the way

1. Which send plug do you use?

2. If you do not use sends what is your workaround?
(please answer this if you can)

3. If you do use Senderella or Getout do you have delays and sync issues with these plugs as well?

4. Are there any other plugs that can be used as a send? Console?

I use the PC version of Tracktion.

Thanks...

[ModuLR]

Well, if you need and easy send and don't have plugins using pdc, I think senderella is a good option since it won't add any delay no matter how many sends you use. The main problem with senderella, is that you can't really use it with something like SIR because the pdc will knock everything out of sync.

One cool trick you can do with senderella also is rename the plugin.. senderella1.dll, senderella2.dll, senderella3.dll, etc.. that way you never have to adjust what channel is sending on.. cause senderella1 will only communicate to another instance of senderella1 for example.

[christianmusicmaker]

Well, if you need and easy send and don't have plugins using pdc, I think senderella is a good option since it won't add any delay no matter how many sends you use. The main problem with senderella, is that you can't really use it with something like SIR because the pdc will knock everything out of sync.

One cool trick you can do with senderella also is rename the plugin.. senderella1.dll, senderella2.dll, senderella3.dll, etc.. that way you never have to adjust what channel is sending on.. cause senderella1 will only communicate to another instance of senderella1 for example.

Thanks Modulr

[AD80]

One cool trick you can do with senderella also is rename the plugin.. senderella1.dll, senderella2.dll, senderella3.dll, etc.. that way you never have to adjust what channel is sending on.. cause senderella1 will only communicate to another instance of senderella1 for example.

Son of a B**** . I guess I'm back to using Senderella again .

I usually use racks for sends if I know I'm not gonna have anymore than 3 sends on any track. Other than that I use ModuLR's magical gizmo. Wait that dont sound right. Senderella.

[christianmusicmaker]

I usually use racks for sends if I know I'm not gonna have anymore than 3 sends on any track.

If you use up to 3 racks per track how many would you use for a project before a timing issue crept in and what latency setting do you have?

Thanks

[Pädy]

Just for the record:
Yes, racks add a latency equel in amount to the one your audio card's driver is set to. But only when using two ore more instances of that rack. And the latencies do NOT accumulate. So it's not like 15 instances of a rack mean an overall latency of 15 x latency (racks) plus 1 latency (driver). It's always twice the audio card's latency.
Of course, when a plugIn has latency, that one adds to it as well.

Cheers, Pädy

[christianmusicmaker]

Just for the record:
Yes, racks add a latency equel in amount to the one your audio card's driver is set to. But only when using two ore more instances of that rack. And the latencies do NOT accumulate. So it's not like 15 instances of a rack mean an overall latency of 15 x latency (racks) plus 1 latency (driver). It's always twice the audio card's latency.
Of course, when a plugIn has latency, that one adds to it as well.

Cheers, Pädy

Thanks for dropping in P...so let me get this right...

If I use Tracktion at 10ms for instance and I use a rack that sends tracks to Pristine Space...

track 1 ...rack

track 2 ...rack

track 3 ...rack > Pristine space

1.Are you saying that with a setting of 10 ms for the audio card latency that it will only be 20 ms for the timing delay, not including of course any delay the plug itself introduces?

2.So I could use a reverb rack on two tracks sending to Pristine Space on track three,repeat this with as many other racks sending to eq plugs, compression plugs e.t.c and the timing delay will still not go above 20 ms? If my sound card setting is 10 ms?

3.If this is correct then you can have 100 racks (extreme I know but bear with me for use as an example)created and used in a project and the delay will only be double my latency setting for my card ? 10ms x 2 = 20ms (not considering the delay introduced by a plug)?

I just want to understand this aspect of Tracktions inner workings as clearly as possible.

Thanks for your patience and help...

[Pädy]

If I understand you correct then points 1 through 3 are all true.
Let me put it like that:

If your audiocard's latency is set to 10ms and you have at least two instances of any given rack, this sums up to 20ms latency per track containing a rack filter (not including the plugIns latency).
If you have two different kind of racks (racks not instances of racks!) and use at least two instances each AND put the instances of those racks in series (one after the other), you end up having 30ms of latency.

So the calculations are always: one audio card's latency per rack (if you use two or more instances of said rack) and if you put two racks in series, this adds another latency of again the audio card's latency.

Hm. This all sounds much more complicated than it is. You can always keep track of your edit's latencies by looking at the advance numbers in the tracks's properties panel.

Cheers, Pädy

[christianmusicmaker]

Hm. This all sounds much more complicated than it is. You can always keep track of your edit's latencies by looking at the advance numbers in the tracks's properties panel.

Cheers, Pädy

I think I see your point.

I think you mean this...


FIRST EXAMPLE

1 created rack in project (lets call it Rack reverb for simplicity)copied and placed on 3 tracks.

Track 1 > (Rack reverb)

Track 2 > (Rack reverb)

Track 3 > (Rack reverb) > (Rayverb)

= 2x my soundcard latency setting.e.g. 2x10ms = 20ms

SECOND EXAMPLE
3 created racks in a project in series on the same track

Track one > eq Rack > compressor Rack > Mod Rack

Track two > eq Rack > equim plug

Track three > compressor Rack > Endorphin plug

Track four > Mod Rack > ring modulator plug

= 3 x soundcard latency setting...e.g. 3x10ms = 30ms?

Summary

A .If I place 1 created rack and copy to any number of tracks...(10,20 30+ tracks for instance)

= 2 x my soundcard latency setting e.g 2x10ms = 20ms?

B.If I create 3 racks and place each on a separate track.

= 2 x my soundcard latency setting e.g 2x10ms = 20ms

C.If I create 3 racks and place them on the same track in series.

= 3 x my soundcard setting e.g 3 x 10ms = 30 ms?

When you said racks in series I assume you mean on the same track...?

[Pädy]

Right.

C.If I create 3 racks and place them on the same track in series.

= 3 x my soundcard setting e.g 3 x 10ms = 30 ms?

Plus the audio card's latency (just to be consistent with the other examples). So it'll be 40ms.

[AD80]

I use approximately 16 send reverb racks per project and dont notice the latency. So I guess it doesnt matter how many times you use one send. But if I stack Send1, then Send2, then Send3 one after another, I start getting latency on that specific track. My latency is set at 11ms.

[valley]

yeah:

1 instance of Rack A : no extra latency
2 or more instances of Rack A : double your current ASIO latency

2 or more instances of Rack A and 1 instance of Rack B : double your current ASIO latency
2 or more instances of Rack A and 2 or more instances of Rack B : triple your current ASIO latency

and so on...

[christianmusicmaker]

Right.

Quote:
C.If I create 3 racks and place them on the same track in series.

= 3 x my soundcard setting e.g 3 x 10ms = 30 ms?


Plus the audio card's latency (just to be consistent with the other examples). So it'll be 40ms.

Thanks Pady I appreciate your efforts!

I use approximately 16 send reverb racks per project and dont notice the latency. So I guess it doesnt matter how many times you use one send. But if I stack Send1, then Send2, then Send3 one after another, I start getting latency on that specific track. My latency is set at 11ms.

Music to my ears AD80 thanks for the feedback!

yeah:

1 instance of Rack A : no extra latency
2 or more instances of Rack A : double your current ASIO latency

2 or more instances of Rack A and 1 instance of Rack B : double your current ASIO latency
2 or more instances of Rack A and 2 or more instances of Rack B : triple your current ASIO latency

and so on...

Thanks Valley I think you put it in a much more simplified way than I did. Cheers!!

[P.T.]

The latency is probably not a problem if you render the tracks and re-import them into the song and line them up properly with the tracks that do not use racks.

If, however, you have some tracks that use racks and some that do not and you just render the entire thing as a single stereo file the mis-timing of the tracks will leave you with a smeared sonic mess.

I made a simple song with piano (with no effects) and drums. I used racks on the drums to add reverb.
I rendered it and imported it.

On comparing the original to the render I saw that the piano notes lined up but the drum hits were off.

I could also hear it.

The same problem exists for racks as multi-outs.

If you use the racks differently and put all the effects in the rack or build the multi-outs inside the rack then there is no latency problem.

getout works better than racks if you want to place
everything on different tracks, but still has some(fairly minor) latency issues. Things don't seem to line up perfectly.

[valley]

If you use the racks differently and put all the effects in the rack or build the multi-outs inside the rack then there is no latency problem.

the only problem with the multi effect send inside one rack thing is that you can't control sends to each of the effects independently.

I've never yet come up with a decent workaround for this problem, though I haven't totally given up hope...

That said I haven;t tried rackbitz mixer or RustedMonkey's EXY solutions yet...