[FR] Direct value input

[maximoog]

A direct value input from the computer keyboard as PlugIns other manufacturers would be nice.

[moscom_electronics]

+1

[Urs]

We have had this for years, almost ready to roll out. But it does not work at all in two or three major hosts. Hence we haven't ever officially launched it. In Logic for instance when you type a value, it simply changes the screensets - major FU. In other hosts, whenever a key is typed, the system beeps.

To try it:

• in your support folder (see user manual) locate com.u-he.Diva.Preferences.txt (use any plug-in name instead of Diva)
• open this file in a text editor such as Wordpad
• Add: V_PROPERTY name='Preference' id='0' value='AllViews:KeyControl:YES'

Start host, open plug-in, click any control and type away. The currently selected control should have a focus circle or square drawn around it. In drop down lists, instead of numerical values write, say, "L2" to select LFO2, and combination of letters will do, and hit return. Use cursor keys to move focus around. Use + and - to increment/decrement values. Use them with shift (on your number block) to do small value steps.

Chances are extremely high though that it does not work though. It would be the best UI feature imaginable, it took several weeks to develop, but alas, plug-ins have a big disadvantage when hosts do whatever they like.

One day we'll add a hack into the OS windowing system and let users choose to have our plug-ins steal all the keys from the host. Then it shall work.

- U

[Aerithos]

I think what he means is to be able to right-click on a control, select "Type in value", and then have a small text dialog pop up where you can type in the number directly.

[maximoog]

I think what he means is to be able to right-click on a control, select "Type in value", and then have a small text dialog pop up where you can type in the number directly.

Exactly, that's what I mean . Right-click or double-click.

[Urs]

I think what he means is to be able to right-click on a control, select "Type in value", and then have a small text dialog pop up where you can type in the number directly.

Exactly, that's what I mean . Right-click or double-click.

Yes, I get that. Thing is, we developed something much better than that. Complete control from the keyboard, so you don't even need to click anywhere.

But yes, some way to click and enter values in a pop up would certainly be possible. It's just not nearly as quick and comfortable as what we have (errm, would have had)...

[NerdMcBoon]

Interesting!

It seems to work in Renoise (Renoise has a checkbox below each plugin window to choose if keystrokes should be send to the plugin), but there doesn't seem to be a way to confirm the value. So, I can type in a value, but it doesn't actually do anything.

I tested this with Bazille.

[Urs]

Interesting!

It seems to work in Renoise (Renoise has a checkbox below each plugin window to choose if keystrokes should be send to the plugin), but there doesn't seem to be a way to confirm the value. So, I can type in a value, but it doesn't actually do anything.

I tested this with Bazille.

So the Return key doesn't work?

I also forgot to mention, this system is meant to interact with MIDI as well. You won't believe how sad I am that we had to flush this to a lower spot in our priority list. It was an awesome system when it worked (before we tested it in multiple hosts), but in the meantime a few developments might have broken it even more

[NerdMcBoon]

Interesting!

It seems to work in Renoise (Renoise has a checkbox below each plugin window to choose if keystrokes should be send to the plugin), but there doesn't seem to be a way to confirm the value. So, I can type in a value, but it doesn't actually do anything.

I tested this with Bazille.

So the Return key doesn't work?

Nope, it doesn't seem like it. It doesn't seem to get send to Renoise either, though.

[nilhartman]

We have had this for years, almost ready to roll out. But it does not work at all in two or three major hosts. Hence we haven't ever officially launched it. In Logic for instance when you type a value, it simply changes the screensets - major FU. In other hosts, whenever a key is typed, the system beeps.

To try it:

• in your support folder (see user manual) locate com.u-he.Diva.Preferences.txt (use any plug-in name instead of Diva)
• open this file in a text editor such as Wordpad
• Add: V_PROPERTY name='Preference' id='0' value='AllViews:KeyControl:YES'

Start host, open plug-in, click any control and type away. The currently selected control should have a focus circle or square drawn around it. In drop down lists, instead of numerical values write, say, "L2" to select LFO2, and combination of letters will do, and hit return. Use cursor keys to move focus around. Use + and - to increment/decrement values. Use them with shift (on your number block) to do small value steps.

Chances are extremely high though that it does not work though. It would be the best UI feature imaginable, it took several weeks to develop, but alas, plug-ins have a big disadvantage when hosts do whatever they like.

One day we'll add a hack into the OS windowing system and let users choose to have our plug-ins steal all the keys from the host. Then it shall work.

- U

Wow, fantastic! It seems to be working seamlessly here (Diva, AU, Live 9.7b4 64bit).
Urs, a couple of question if I may:
- how do you enter negative values?
- would it be possible to add support for commas when typing values? For example, French AZERTY's numpad doesn't have a dot.
Anyway, that's an amazing feature, thanks a lot!

[Urs]

Wow, fantastic! It seems to be working seamlessly here (Diva, AU, Live 9.7b4 64bit).
Urs, a couple of question if I may:
- how do you enter negative values?
- would it be possible to add support for commas when typing values? For example, French AZERTY's numpad doesn't have a dot.
Anyway, that's an amazing feature, thanks a lot!

Glad you like it!

The different keyboard layouts were one of the reason (apart from obvious obstacles) we haven't fully gone through with this idea - we need to add an editor/preferences panel or something just for that. On a German QWERTZ keyboard you can also change values using Q & W (coarse), A & S (integer steps) and Y & X (fine).

I don't remember what was done for input of negative values. I guess I haven't thought of that yet

This feature may also work for our other plug-ins, I'm not sure of that either. It was originally designed for ACE and Diva, but I've only switched it on for Diva myself, partly also to remind me that we have this feature.

We should definitely revisit it, maybe after Repro-1 or once it's in beta testing.

- U

[_al_]

Urs, im just a bit curious here. i got a set of DX plugins, last updated in 2002, and they are able to recieve keyboard input for exact values.
so how is someone with your skill not able to do this on your plugins?? im not complaining here, just curious lol

[david.beholder]

We have had this for years, almost ready to roll out. But it does not work at all in two or three major hosts. Hence we haven't ever officially launched it. In Logic for instance when you type a value, it simply changes the screensets - major FU.

Isn't it AU only problem? I have plenty of VST with possiblity of input and never seen a problem for a years.

[EvilDragon]

I can confirm that number input works fine, but Enter/Return does not work at all, here in Reaper. Oh also, +/- for increments does not work as well...

I agree that a right-click value entry input would work, because then you could temporarily force stealing all keyboard input for the plugin, I think.


Also I tested with Zebra, Bazille, ACE, Diva, Tyrell and text input seems to be enabled in all of them.

[Urs]

so how is someone with your skill not able to do this on your plugins?? im not complaining here, just curious lol

hehehe, It's because everyone else does the safer thing and opens a platform text input field. Our implementation works (if it does) without prior mouse activation that pops up a little window or something. I'd say our way has a gazillion of advantages, but also one unfortunate disadvantage: It doesn't work.

We basically need to cheat and open a transparent text input field that gets it all. Or something. I wish there was one hack that fits it all. We'll see.

It's btw. neither dependent on platform nor on plug-in format. It's solely about how hosts hook into the event stream, and in succession about what kind of window they offer to the plug-in editor. There seem to be as many ways to do this as there are plug-in hosts.