Note-off messages

[smithoid]

Hi
We are trying to set up an Akai MidiMix to work with MuLab. In order to turn the LED's on an appropriate note-on message (different for each LED) has to be sent to the MidiMix and this is working fine. However the LED's can only be turned off by sending the same note-on with velocity = zero. Tried using the midi velocity scale module and Piz midi converter (VST) but no joy. The only way we found so far to turn off LED was to send a note from sequencer module and set velocity to less than 0.5 as presumably the velocity gets rounded down to zero. Unfortunately we don't want a sequencer as part of the mixer set up!!
Any thoughts?
As new users to MuLab, my daughter and I are having great fun.
Cheers
Paul

[smithoid]

Just to clarify, the LED's do not switch off in response to a note-off message (whatever the velocity is)
Thanks
Paul

[pljones]

The MIDI Note Off message is pretty much part of the core protocol: "On" means start doing what you do; "Off" means stop. There's the option to also support "On but at zero velocity" to mean "Off" but it's not required to supply or support it. It sounds like you have a hardware device that's deficient in its MIDI implementation, in my view (not correctly supporting MIDI note off). It's been a pain that manufacturers do this since 1983.

[smithoid]

As "note-off" and "note-on with zero velocity" both represent the end of a note event in the midi spec, one would think that manufacturers would have their gear recognise both variants. The Akai APC Key 25 has the same issue. Works great with Live, but then the Ableton script must be sending back the note-on/zero velocity event that the LED's want. I suppose my only thought is that it would be great if the MuLab note modifier could send a note-on/zero velocity when set at 0%. I'm assuming it sends a note-off instead.
Cheers
Paul

[MuTools]

Indeed MuLab sends out real note-off messages ie status byte 0x80, which is correct. Odd to hear that an Akai device doesn't support that, Akai has so much experience with MIDI. Did you contact Akai about that?

[nenneb]

Sorry, Jo, I also think MuLab sends NoteOn with Vel=0 (see screenshots) - at least MuLabs EventMonitor says so ... (I did this with MuLab 7.1.22-32bit on Win8.1-64bit with a new empty file, basic synth and only one note c4. I played the first c#3 with the upper right virtual keyboard).

@smithoid:
Maybe external VST helps, e.g
MidiConverter2 (http://thepiz.org/plugins/?p=pizmidi)
dh_midimunger (http://www.midiplugins.com/Plugin/263)
although I don't know that stuff ...

[MuTools]

Internally MuLab uses note-offs using the velocity = 0 method. But when sending out note-offs to MIDI out or VSTs it uses the explicit note-off format with MIDI status byte 0x80.

[smithoid]

Hi
The MuLab sequencer sends out a note-on/zero velocity if the velocity of the note is set to less than 0.5 as presumably it rounds down and doesn't make the switch to a note-off event. There is grumbling on the Akai forums re: inability to assign messages for LED activation with the MidiMix editor. Perhaps I will add my voice! Cheers Nenneb...have tried Piz midi converter as VST within MuLab (no joy) but will check out other suggestions. Thanks!!!
Paul

[pljones]

Poking around the net, you'll see it's a pretty common issue for hardware to have these problems (someone I saw had a lighting rig that didn't understand Note Off, so they could fade the lights down... but not turn them off). Maybe have an option "Only Use Note On" that, if true, would send Note On Velocity Zero for Note Off? Or, better, have an "Enable running status" option, so you suppress extra status messages and use velocity zero for what it was introduced for? (Ideally, the velocity on the Note Off, when used, could be set to something useful, too, for those incredibly rare cases where someone's bothered to use it..!)