Getting that "powdered" compressor sound in Presswerk?

[Sendy]

Just picked up Presswerk and updated to the latest version. Compression isn't one of my strong suits to be honest and I'm looking for tips for how to get that "powdery" compression sound with a lot of grain. I've only just started diving into the new options and there's a lot to see and hear!

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Got an example of what that sound is? Either an audio recording with powdery compression, or even another compressor that does that?

[Sendy]

Around the 1 minute mark. At around 3:10 to 3:30 you get even more variations.

Clark, BOC and Autechre have used this kind of compression a lot. Often aided with AM or granular processing (and most certainly distortion) to bring the graininess out even more before the compression. But basically you want the threshold to be constantly on the verge of triggering and not triggering, so you can mix in a layer of spluttering "powdery" grain over the drums.

Anyway, Presswerk is blowing me away. I'm finding so many sounds in it and so far I've only been using it on one track (a spiky drum track).

[Sendy]

Around 1 minute in, here's another variation. I'm not even sure this is compression, it sounds to me like distortion with fast tremelo creating "rips" in the sound followed by a bit reducer (then probably a HP filter to get rid of the low end crud that would build up); there are so many ways to get this kind of effect! But I've heard a few producers talk about using compressors in interviews, and have gotten close to it with other plugins before (though I don't remember which one - I think Roughrider is a good one, Audio Damage...).

Another question I have: Is there a global output volume knob in Presswerk? The volumes I'm finding all seem to have some effect, either they seem to be pre-mix, or affect the amount of saturation, etc. Is there something I can use to just lower the output level of the entire plugin to make A/Bing easier?

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

I'm not sure I hear what you're hearing but here goes...

First, the Chris Clark song. The beat/drums sound like they have some bit-crushed type sounds and distortion, but I don't attribute either to compression. Though, I recall getting a spiky kind of distortion like that with Blue Cat Dynamics and the original Voxengo Marquis. If you wanted this sound, I'd start with a more modern compression scheme (probably something VCA based), and go for a fast attack (less than 10ms) and release with a lot of bright saturation. I'm guessing a lot of the distortion you're hearing was already there though and isn't coming in from a compressor (could be wrong though). For the most part though, what I'm hearing is a lot of compression across the mixbuss that's being regular ducked by instruments popping in and out along with the loud drums. Once you get your elements in the mix starting good, I'd go shoot for a mixbuss compressor with a relatively fast attack let's say 10ms to start with a slow-ish release (say 300-400ms to start) and play with it until you get some bounce.

The BOC mix sounds very different. Listening around the 1:00 mark I'm hearing what I'd consider to be bitcrushed drums with some flams (very fast hits) programmed in. Again, I don't think it's a compressor providing the distortion but I could be wrong. In fact, we could be hearing the effects of very heavy clipping in both sets of sounds, which could certainly be achieved with a limiter with a built-in clipper.

Anyway, I'd try and get those sounds without any compression first, then experiment with abusing Presswerk to try and push the sound forward in the mix.

Edit: BTW, sorry none of the above addresses Presswerk in particularly, but hopefully some of it's helpful (even if my guesses are wildly inaccurate).

[3ee]

try the dynamic saturation within Presswerk (play with all 3 knobs there) ...this is before any compression
once you mastered the saturation section, you dial some hard compression (probably helpful to have auto make-up gain enabled here) into it and it'll change character.

also, you must play with SC filters when having extreme compression, you'll be surprised how much it can change the tone/movement... they won't work as expected when extreme compression!

all of these tips on the drum bus / drum loop.

if hard compression gets clicky... and you kinda like the attack, reach for the "delay" to smooth out the attack part.

[3ee]

Another question I have: Is there a global output volume knob in Presswerk? The volumes I'm finding all seem to have some effect, either they seem to be pre-mix, or affect the amount of saturation, etc. Is there something I can use to just lower the output level of the entire plugin to make A/Bing easier?

For A/B gain compensation I always use the "level" knob (the one next to dry/wet) in the "mix" section. ... when auto make-up gain is enabled, you usually turn down the mix level to compensate.

[justin3am]

Yeah, use the saturation in the pre position and mess with the side chain filters. Mess with the attack and release so it kinda lags behind the transients. You want the attack slow enough that it misses the initial transient and so the release makes the tail of the drum sound kinda "bloom". Heavy threshold, -25, -30dB, depending on the level of the incoming audio.

Also experiment with processing the key input, independent of the signal which is processed by the compressor. For example, use a pre-FX send to route the unprocessed signal to the side-chain input on the compressor. You can then put effects on the send which only effect the signal which goes to the compressor's detector (not the sound you hear). My favorite is to distort this signal, cause it exaggerates the dynamics in a cool way. You can also use short delay, reverb, chorus, frequency shifter to blur the dynamics.

[Sendy]

Thanks for all the info and replies! Lots to try out. Presswork is making me fall in love with compression, which is a minor miracle in itself! Normally I use it because I have to, not because I want to

Also, warmth box on the 2bus? Hell yeah! I was getting bored of my latest track, it was just lacking something, threw this on after The Glue with the phase rotation thingy and some light limiting, now it sounds bigger and better!

Oh, that also means I'm up to date on all my u-he plugins! So I might have a go at a u-he only track and post the results if it ever gets finished

[Howard]

I might have a go at a u-he only track and post the results if it ever gets finished

[Dasheesh]

I think it's the "NY Compression" you are after. mixing a heavily compressed wet signal under a dry signal.

[Sendy]

Not really NY compression, it's something much more chaotic. Here's BOC talking about it:

"Sometimes, I'll hit a sound with way too much compression — when you get that fine line where it's just kicking in, but it's right on the threshold of the sound so that the compressor ends up spreading what I call ‘powder’ over the part so it sounds like it's crumbling.”

I read this the other day and totally got it - you know when you're like "OMG I know that process, I've been hearing it in various states of undress in all these tunes)? Well it was like that! (A bit like when I discovered Granulab and granular processing in the late 90's).

[Sendy]

I might have a go at a u-he only track and post the results if it ever gets finished

I'll give it my best shot

I actually really need some more self-imposed limitations, they usually end up inspiring. And I need to work out how to play Satin properly.

To be honest, compression and saturation kinda do my head in a bit, it can be so hard to A/B, and the sounds can be so subtly different, but make such a huge difference, sometimes it's bordering on subliminal. As someone who uses visual thinking for most of the synthesis and mixing process, it makes these subtleties hard to master. As opposed to EQ which is VERY visual, it's all about "carving space" - you couldn't get more literal

[3ee]

I actually really need some more self-imposed limitations...

..and pick highly flexible u-he stuff, nice going!

[btw]

Not really NY compression, it's something much more chaotic. Here's BOC talking about it:

"Sometimes, I'll hit a sound with way too much compression — when you get that fine line where it's just kicking in, but it's right on the threshold of the sound so that the compressor ends up spreading what I call ‘powder’ over the part so it sounds like it's crumbling.”

I read this the other day and totally got it.

This sounds really appealing to me in the abstract, but I'm having trouble understanding how you'd dial this in vis à vis "way too much compression" and "that fine line where it's just kicking in" so as to achieve the powdery sound in question. Are we talking about a high ratio with a hard knee, and setting the threshold so that the material is just nudging up over the knee? Relatively fast attack and release in order to avoid smoothing the attenuation, preserving the powder/grittiness? Thanks!