Youlean Loudness Meter 2 - V2.5.2 - April 25, 2022 update

[plexuss]

Would it be possible to increase the TP level threshold above 0dB?

Unfortunately not. Why would you want to do that?

ISPs. Im tellin ya...

Sorry, do not understand...

I know. That's a problem. Sounds like you need to investigate the value of ISP metering as it applies to preparing digital audio for playback. Without that understanding you won't acknowledge the need for it and understand why it's such a gap not to have it in your meter.

[Hermetech Mastering]

The current TP metering is fine, doesn't need anything else, IMO. Can set it to warn red wherever you like, I leave it at 0.0 for most things, and try to avoid them completely. If it's music which will be submitted for streaming, set it at -1.0 and forget about it (unless it turns red). As long as you have a good TP limiter to go along with it, you should be fine.

For TP you either don't mind having them (many commercial CD masters are full of them), or you don't want them at all (for streaming, or being conservative with levels, or worried about how they might sound on different consumer DACs etc). So I also don't understand the need for a counter telling you how many there have been, what would the use case scenario be for that?

[plexuss]

The current TP metering is fine, doesn't need anything else, IMO. Can set it to warn red wherever you like, I leave it at 0.0 for most things, and try to avoid them completely. If it's music which will be submitted for streaming, set it at -1.0 and forget about it (unless it turns red). As long as you have a good TP limiter to go along with it, you should be fine.

For TP you either don't mind having them (many commercial CD masters are full of them), or you don't want them at all (for streaming, or being conservative with levels, or worried about how they might sound on different consumer DACs etc). So I also don't understand the need for a counter telling you how many there have been, what would the use case scenario be for that?

There is guessing, and there is knowing. I'd rather know. And the standards and technlology are there to do it. So let's get into it....

[ deleted - you dont really care so why waste my time ]

[martinjuenke]

Very interesting aspects!
I‘ll check your recommendations, will have a look into Apple RoundTripAAC and just bought the Youlean thing. If it doesn‘t work out fine I‘ll put a spell on you!

[mutantdog]

The current TP metering is fine, doesn't need anything else, IMO. Can set it to warn red wherever you like, I leave it at 0.0 for most things, and try to avoid them completely. If it's music which will be submitted for streaming, set it at -1.0 and forget about it (unless it turns red). As long as you have a good TP limiter to go along with it, you should be fine.

For TP you either don't mind having them (many commercial CD masters are full of them), or you don't want them at all (for streaming, or being conservative with levels, or worried about how they might sound on different consumer DACs etc). So I also don't understand the need for a counter telling you how many there have been, what would the use case scenario be for that?

These are fair points, but since this is an analysis tool i could envisage a case where i may want to run through the master with TP limiting turned off so that i can see the extent of the ISPs and thus how much gain reduction is taking place. I've found that, for example, short glitchy percussion sounds can cause quite significant ISPs, these can often be better treated with high-frequency clipping prior to any TP limiting.

It's a minor request really, something which i could achieve by gain-staging in and out of YLM. Nevertheless it would make for some useful additional functionality.

[Hermetech Mastering]

Yeah, we all have different workflows. I tend to try and stop all ISPs in my masters, have done for a decade now, so as long as there aren't any, I don't need to know how many there are, if that makes sense? But if you are letting them through, I guess knowing how many might be relevant? But I still don't really get it, as you can never know how different DACs will deal with them in the real world. Back to my main point, you either don't really care about them, or don't want any.

[plexuss]

Yeah, we all have different workflows. I tend to try and stop all ISPs in my masters, have done for a decade now, so as long as there aren't any, I don't need to know how many there are, if that makes sense? But if you are letting them through, I guess knowing how many might be relevant? But I still don't really get it, as you can never know how different DACs will deal with them in the real world. Back to my main point, you either don't really care about them, or don't want any.

[ bla bla bla ]

[Hermetech Mastering]

I never master with 128kbps mp3 in mind, never have done. I master for audiophile systems with lossless files. No ISPs make it into my masters, unless it's the Hiphop or IDM clients who want it super loud. If clients request MP3s I run them through MP3Gain before sending them off. Again, no ISPs. Hence my general lack of concern.

What I think you are proposing is that Youlean incorporate something that tries to work out in advance how many ISPs might make it into a file after it has been converted into a lossy format (such as the Apple applet which I've been using it to check MFiT submissions since it was first announced, or the various "codec checkers" that are available). I think that's totally unnecessary in a meter plugin, you don't. Like I said, different workflows!

[plexuss]

I master for audiophile systems with lossless files. No ISPs make it into my masters, [snip...]

[ I'll keep it to myself thanks ]

[Hermetech Mastering]

Dude, you're preaching to the converted! Long discussion about this on GS recently. I've been on the Apple approved list for MFiT for years etc. Bowing out now.

[EnochLight]

TL;DR

I wouldn't be quite that dramatic, but things don't get under my skin that easily. At any rate, I've spent $27 USD on far worse things. A bad dinner while eating out. Crappy cocktails. I bought the pro version just to support Youlean, since he's offered this fantastic plugin for free for the past 2 years - I just felt like supporting him. Obviously, YMMV...

[Compyfox]

Sigh... Pretends to be a professional, but runs a 'studio' full of cheap Behringer gear and keeps on moaning about the price of a $27 plugin. Pathetic...

Oh, we're going down that route again, Reefius? You only went the personal insult route like how often prior at this point? Twice? Three times? Getting boring, annoying, and actually nowhere. I'm pretty sure I can beat other engineers any day with my skills and quote-on-quote cheap Behringer gear (which my work environment is not "full of", and which is far form being cheap in sound and usability in the right hands) in my "so called... 'studio' ".



You're missing the point of my argument though.

The plugin might cost a "mere 27USD" and it's "pathetic" to you for me calling out the developer. But you ignore the pressing issues at hand:

1) time limited intro pricing, including day-1 announcement that prices go even further up
2) Pro features can't be tested beforehand, you need to purchase the plugin in order to do so
3) no refund policy known
4) shop issues (mostly handled at this point)

But sure - throw around with insults and lack of understanding, hiding behind an alias, not showing any work, page or social media yourself. This is always the easier route to go. And it's not the first time I see you doing this.

I ask myself what (or whom in this case) is more pathetic...

[snip...]

*backs away slowly*

We could still have an interesting discussion - but you do you.

It's a great meter for a very good price.

A meter where it's Pro features can't be tested beforehand without investing any funds.

TL;DR

Tries to be sarcastic with a "too long, didn't read" comment, responds regardless.

I wouldn't be quite that dramatic, but things don't get under my skin that easily. At any rate, I've spent $27 USD on far worse things. A bad dinner while eating out. Crappy cocktails. I bought the pro version just to support Youlean, since he's offered this fantastic plugin for free for the past 2 years - I just felt like supporting him. Obviously, YMMV...

There is nothing to laugh about - for me at least. If you have the money to burn because you say "I've spend xyz amount on far worse things" - all the more power to you. But that's not the argument here.

The argument in this case is completely different - and a lot(!) of the people going into attack mode seem to completely blend that out once more.

"Just support the developer! He deserves the money". I'm not saying he doesn't. What I'm saying is, that how this is handled is far(!) from being okay and it's business practices I rather not support (I had my fair share of wasted funds as well). Yet I will burn for that in the long run because I currently speak with my wallet. And if I want to jump into this later, I pay x-amount more than early adopters (already announced price increase), and will then be laughed at for "not jumping on the band wagon in the first place".

But sure... only see one side of the medal. Throw the opinion and arguments of others out the window. This is the internet. An audio community where criticism is not necessarily welcome anymore - only 10/10 reviews and praise.

This is the really sad part of this whole "OMG just STFU and leave!" commentary.
Your mileage may not vary in this case.

The current TP metering is fine, doesn't need anything else, IMO. Can set it to warn red wherever you like, I leave it at 0.0 for most things, and try to avoid them completely. If it's music which will be submitted for streaming, set it at -1.0 and forget about it (unless it turns red). As long as you have a good TP limiter to go along with it, you should be fine.

Not all so called ISP meters are "save".

Case in point:
https://www.saintpid.se/en/isp-true-peak-limiters-test/

That list isn't up-to-date btw.

For TP you either don't mind having them (many commercial CD masters are full of them), or you don't want them at all (for streaming, or being conservative with levels, or worried about how they might sound on different consumer DACs etc). So I also don't understand the need for a counter telling you how many there have been, what would the use case scenario be for that?

I also don't see a reason other than for logging purposes for distribution plants or broadcast stations. Though in case of the latter, if you exceed your given boundaries, you're in for hefty fees. So if there is a logging system that can proof "nothing happened" or only a certain amount of time at a specific value, then you're on the save side - or in for less fees.

The problem is - the more non white-paper/standard specs features you add, the more and more it turns problematic in the long run. Because as we all know - rules are there to be bent, or plain downright broken. "I have occasional ISP incident? As long as I don't have more than 5, it's fine" - we don't really need to go down that rabbit hole again.

If a range higher than the 0dBTP ceiling is introduced, I'm for a +9 range (cause overshots can be that high, if you're really pushing the average signal strength). But since all ITU-R BS.1770-x (and it's "presets"/derivatives) speak of a ceiling of -1dBTP absolute max, and you shall never exceed it in day-to-day use... do we really need that?

[EnochLight]

Tries to be sarcastic with a "too long, didn't read" comment, responds regardless.

Meh, not really that big of a deal to me.

There is nothing to laugh about - for me at least. If you have the money to burn because you say "I've spend xyz amount on far worse things" - all the more power to you. But that's not the argument here.

Well, yeah, obviously not for you. You've made that abundantly clear. But discounting others just because they don't agree with you? Come on, now... out of those 14,000+ posts you've made here, I'm sure you can see the irony in this?

Your mileage may not vary in this case.

Yeah, it really does.

Part of being on the Internet is realizing that not all people will agree with you. That's OK.

[Compyfox]

Funny enough though, that apparently my argument is (quote-on-quote) the wrong one, unadjusted and not desired. We keep on walking in circles.



I'm probably really late with this (as the timer runs out in 5 hours), but I have one remaining question to the developer that I've yet so see an answer for. In fact, I'm still surprised to be the only one asking this (it should be standard to note down, being part of a FAQ, etc):

Since the "Pro" features are bound to a purchase and lack any other means of testing...

What about a clear set refund policy?

[plexuss]

What about a clear set refund policy?

https://youlean.co/youlean-loudness-meter/

• Streaming presets
• Dynamic graph
• PDF export
• Readout focus
• Custom alerts
• Faster project saving
• Advanced settings
• Lifetime FREE updates
• 30 days money back

You need the refund policy to be clearer than that? I'm not sure how other than to add "guarantee" to the end of the last point.