vst automation

[jd88]

as example Arturia SEM V2 (V-Collection 5)

Testet as example with sound > "Template init voice 1 - (sawtooth wave)" < has before automation Filter Cutoff-value 100% and Resonance Value 0%

Now recording: Changing while recording at measure 4 up to 8 continously Cutoff from 100% down to 40% and Resonance measure 9 up to 12 from 0% up to 60%.

Now stopping, rewind to start and MuTools did'nt change the automation parameter back to it's defaultvalues. So starting the song with cutoff-value: 40% and resonance-value 60%.

This happens with most VSTi's


Compared this with other daw's and most of them doing this right. (Found this problem only in 2 other DAW's from 12 tested)

Any ideas?


(MAC OSX 10.9.5 - Last Version of MuTools)

[pljones]

If I've understood what you're after, MuLab would reset your VST at the start of each part on a track if it were to act the way you suggest and that would be very wrong. If you want a particular value set, you need to make sure you've got that value in your automation.

[jd88]

not each part of a track. At the beginning of a complete track (song).
While MuTools ist running it's allways looking back, what the last automation value per parameter was, but the lack is the startingpoint of the song.

[MuTools]

You have to program such 'start value' yourself, cfr what pljones wrote.
The good news is that there are handy functions to do so:
Whenever you tweak a VST parameter, the focused parameter knob at the top of the editor (in the MuTools GUI) follows the parameter. Now right-click that focused parameter knob -> Copy As Envelope Point and paste it at 1.1.0000 in the envelope you create for that parameter. Of course you could also use that function to create envelope points with other values at other times.

[jd88]

for shure I know that I've actually to do in MuTools like that. (it was'nt a question ) ,

But maybe you can change this in future and MuTools in this case too will be as userfriendly as in other DAW's, because if you automate many paramters, and programming / changin sounds 'on the road , (and old Synthist doing ), the actual option is not usuable (Y)

I like MuTools very much, because it's simple, best and logic to work with it. Support is 'grandiosso !!!!' (Y) , so it is only a feature request. Otherwise I've to wait, to do some 'on the fly'-Synth-Experimentals with it.

[pljones]

not each part of a track. At the beginning of a complete track (song).
While MuTools ist running it's allways looking back, what the last automation value per parameter was, but the lack is the startingpoint of the song.

You are not understanding something fundamental about MuLab. A Track doesn't contain anything but Parts. The same Part could be both at the start of the composition and also later on as a linked Part. Clearly you would expect the two to work in exactly the same way in both places. There's also no concept of "looking backward" going on. If you change something, it stays changed until you change it again. Nothing will get reset to something else unless you've instructed that to happen.

Say you had no automation recorded yet and were trying various settings out. If every time you started playback, all your trial settings were reset, you would very quickly decide this was not what you wanted happening.

Until you've committed a setting to a part, MuLab knows nothing about that setting and will not do something unrequested.

[jd88]

Hey pljones. I think it's a translation-problem (My english is'nt very well ...)

Hey man, MuTools incl. it's MUX is really easy (If I'm doing some teaching because music & computer - , I'm doing it with mutools). And believe me, I know it very well.

(ok, sometimes I'm wondering, like: if you resize after recording a part to left, that you see in the editor data pre 0. but ok, now knowing about and it's ok )

Looking back = because it's ( seems ) automation-envelopes, so it's seeing what happens some time before, last value (You may think it's reading only actual position?)

right, tracks are one or more parts (like many other DAW's doing )

a.s.o.

And what I'm talking about (my question / feature request above) most of DAW's are doing exactly this (Ableton, DP, Logic, Reaper, ReNoise (ok, via sep. elements - and hey, MuTools has an generic edit. so all parameters and values are there, since first moment VST is loading or programms are selected), Bitwig, Samplitude and and and .. .. ..


And the first time I was involved in DAW programming, I solved this problem via buffering all VST-parameters (after loading - later after select track) or, if the vst let me do, writing the default while first click on the GUI-element.
Then there was some more ways in another DAW: for each parameter in back- or foreground automatically is an (param.-) element .. .. ... ...

Allways: after changing a value, the default parameter will be written at the beginning of the track or hold by a parameter / element (has nothing directly to do with the part you seeing.).

So for shure, if MuTools want to do, they can do.

But because it's a feature request, they can, but have not to do. And I respect this, because they doing a very, very good job. (Y)

[urvieh]

i think i know what you mean:
i use a synth for a part. later on this part i decide to automate the filtercutoff and the parameter rises from 0 to 100. Then i jump to the beginning of the part where no automation is in use. the cutoff is also at 100 but you think it should be 0 where your automation later starts, right?
i have the same problem at the moment, because i have to automate the whole part from the beginning on. thats normally not necessary in other daws.
Is there a best practice for this situation or can some make a small tutorial how to deal with that, please?

[MuTools]

Make sure you program a start value.
Whenever you tweak a VST parameter, the focused parameter knob at the top of the editor (in the MuTools GUI) follows the parameter. Now right-click that focused parameter knob -> Copy As Envelope Point and paste it at 1.1.0000 in the envelope you create for that parameter. Of course you could also use that function to create envelope points with other values at other times. And of course this function also exists for all MUX parameters.

[VariKusBrainZ]

This kind of scuppers impromptu tweaking though, as you might record tweaks to parameters you had not originally planned to .

You therefor have to go back and enter start values for anything you've tweaked.

Could be a major workflow killer.

Certainly one of the reasons I don't use Mulab much.

[urvieh]

thank you jo
sorry i didnt saw that you have already post the solution . i will see later this day how this works.

[MuTools]

This kind of scuppers impromptu tweaking though, as you might record tweaks to parameters you had not originally planned to. You therefor have to go back and enter start values for anything you've tweaked. Could be a major workflow killer. Certainly one of the reasons I don't use Mulab much.

When you start recording, then you can record anything (external keyboard, controllers, parameter tweaks, ...) so how can MuLab know what you're planning to record as it cannot look into your mind, right? Maybe i'm missing something obvious?

[urvieh]

One would like to automate in bar 20 something. So you will start with automation in bar 20. I expect the values before automation to match the first value in Automation.
In Mulab I have to start with the automation in bar 1, although the automation is only needed in bar 20. Thats make the song a bit chaotic. But if i know that, it is not an issue for me.

[MuTools]

If you don't tell MuLab what parameter value you want to start with, then how could MuLab know?

[jd88]

If you don't tell MuLab what parameter value you want to start with, then how could MuLab know?

Simple: normaly a user wants the value, from which one he starts recording first automation-changes. So, the actual position of the slider, knob, whatever. Your Generic-Editor is giving in that case the informations MuTools need too, because the knobs are linked to GUI-Elements / parameter (value).

I can understand, if a user at another position wants to start at another value then the last recorded or changed value before, that then we he'd to say MuTools manually (maybe: change startvalue, then rightclick to write in Mutools at the position, or draw inside ... .. ... or whatever)

It's not important for MuTools to know before recording, which parameter will be automated, because in that moment automation happens, MuTools can write the (buffered) def.-value in or before Track, part or whatever.

Simple like other DAWs working too.

If you're really creative, or doing recordingsession, you never know what happens, so you need a musical and handy workflow. Because automation MuTools lacks actually because this.

MuTools doesn't know before recording too, which MIDI-Controller or Notes I'll use / play. And it works.

OH NO!!!:

MIDI-Controllers (like Modulation) are'nt reset to. This is the next lack. So if you stopping withing a song, while modulation is full open (only for one note), then restart song, this sound ist modulating up to the point of first changing O.o - normally it's standard, that a DAW remembering here starting point too, or better, that there is a preferences-panel, where maybe the user can set: 'reset 'standard-MIDI-controller' (= Modulation, Aftertouch, pedals, pitchwheel) & MIDIcontroller X after rewind / going to start'

Only wanted to say. - Again, I know you're doing a very,very good job. So maybe you'll change or not.
For spontanity and normal working it will be very helpfull if you'll changing.