moving to Bitwig from Ableton Live

[antic604]

So, I'm considering it, in particular because I've ordered a Surface Pro 4 on sale and I know Bitwig did a great job to support touch screens with completely separate, touch-optimised view. I'm a hobbyist producer doing psychedelic trance in-the-box (so no external stuff, other than MIDI keyboard / controller) using native Live + M4L devices + free VSTs, so here's my take on its pros & cons vs. Live:

Pros:
- clips & arrangement views side by side ,
- multi-clip / overlay editing,
- real bounce in place, due to mixed audio & MIDI tracks (important for off-line processing)
- native modulators, lots of them (!),
- 32/64-bit VST support with sandboxing,
- proper support for high DPI screens & touch interfaces.

Cons:
- no M4L, although I'm not really using Max, just the LFO + selected free synths & effects,
- much less impressive suite of native instruments, effects & samples,
- Live is a well-regarded DAW used by many artists in my genre, so finding opportunities for a potential collaboration would be much easier

I'd imagine there's a lot of people here who moved from Live to Bitwig, so I'd appreciate if you could share your story: what works better, what doesn't work as good, what you miss, etc.

I'm hoping Ableton will soon(ish?) announce their plans for v10, which should help me to decide either way

[xbitz]

groove clips (groove extracting) and ReWire master are my biggest ones (and the MIDI channels support)

[antic604]

groove clips (groove extracting) and ReWire master are my biggest ones (and the MIDI channels support)

You mean those things missing in Bitwig, right? Thanks

[Cyoon]

I moved from cubase to bitwig because i was looking for a combination of the cubase style arrangement view with inspector and the live possibilities of Ableton. I was never green in solely working with clips and the arrangement view in Ableton is not how i like to work linear.

This wish was satisfied from day one, and everything that came along since then is icing on the cake for me.

Sure i like that hybrid tracks, as well as layered editing and now the modulators. Sandboxing is a plus, although i haven't had any crash while working for a long time. Whenever something crashes it's usually during the load up of the session.

Also proper PDC and 64 bit was a thing i considered when moving.

[antic604]

...and the arrangement view in Ableton is not how i like to work linear...

Thanks for your feedback! To this one in particular - how Bitwig's linear arranger differs from Live's? I'm asking, because I don't see much difference there.

[olaims]

-Live Groove Straction
-Rewire
-Live 99% CPU = no Glitch Vs Bitwig 80% CPU = 20% Glitch
-Live 99% CPU = soft scrolling and reaction Vs Bitwig 80% CPU = Laggy as hell

[Cyoon]

The arrangement in live looks very crowded and not define to me. I got lost way too often in between all those horizontal lines . Also having the tracks on the right hand side feels unnatural to me since i was used to cubase i guess.

to me this looks not so good



this looks cleaner imo

[mosska]

Groove extract! Only thing I miss from ableton... and saving channels as a default.

Always hated ableton's GUI.

[antic604]

@.maki, yeah I can see that although for me Bitwig's interface is leaning slightly towards the toy-like, so I'd rather have something in the middle. I think Studio One strikes the perfect balance in that regard - modern, flat and very ergonomic

[mgw38]

I played around with almost all of the major DAWs and for me Ableton and Bitwig are the only two that I really feel comfortable with. With the release of version 2.0 and the new pricing model, Bitwig has positioned itself as a true high end DAW solution in every meaning of the word. I was skeptical about this strategy first, but I have to say that Bitwig has arrived at the level where this is justified. In my opinion probably the best DAW on the market today. The new modulation capabilities are just amazing.

I am currently working with Ableton. The main reason why I did not yet switch to Bitwig has to do with the snappiness (or lack thereof) of the GUI. For some reason, the GUI - as nicely designed as it is - is not as responsive as I would like it to be. I am working on a Mac and that could be macOS related. On some of my machines, I can't even switch into full screen mode without introducing a significant lag in GUI rendering. Probably a Java thing. The second annoyance is the lack of Audio Unit support, but that is once again an OS issue. I have a couple of plugins that I use regularly that are only available as audio units.

I tried Bitwig on a Surface Pro once, specifically for the touch functionality. It is really well done, but in the end it was not enough to convince me to switch the OS. There are just so many thing that I find super annoying about Windows (in particular the whole audio driver situation).

[antic604]

@mgw38 thanks for your feedback.

I keep hearing a lot about GUI getting unresponsive under load. Is it a well documented issue? Is Bitwig aware or that and acknowledges it as something that requires fixing?

[mgw38]

@mgw38 thanks for your feedback.

I keep hearing a lot about GUI getting unresponsive under load. Is it a well documented issue? Is Bitwig aware or that and acknowledges it as something that requires fixing?

I think it is a consequence of the way it is implemented. They originally decided on a Java implementation of the GUI to keep it as open platform as possible. But with that approach comes a tradeoff in the form of an increased need of system resources to render the GUI. As far as I know they have moved away from that strategy a bit.

I have not tested it under heavy workload but my feeling was that this is more of a problem on Macs and less on PCs.

[Cyoon]

@mgw38 thanks for your feedback.

I keep hearing a lot about GUI getting unresponsive under load. Is it a well documented issue? Is Bitwig aware or that and acknowledges it as something that requires fixing?

I think it is a consequence of the way it is implemented. They originally decided on a Java implementation of the GUI to keep it as open platform as possible. But with that approach comes a tradeoff in the form of an increased need of system resources to render the GUI. As far as I know they have moved away from that strategy a bit.

I have not tested it under heavy workload but my feeling was that this is more of a problem on Macs and less on PCs.

pretty vague speculations here actualy imo.

[mgw38]

@mgw38 thanks for your feedback.

I keep hearing a lot about GUI getting unresponsive under load. Is it a well documented issue? Is Bitwig aware or that and acknowledges it as something that requires fixing?

I think it is a consequence of the way it is implemented. They originally decided on a Java implementation of the GUI to keep it as open platform as possible. But with that approach comes a tradeoff in the form of an increased need of system resources to render the GUI. As far as I know they have moved away from that strategy a bit.

I have not tested it under heavy workload but my feeling was that this is more of a problem on Macs and less on PCs.

pretty vague speculations here actualy imo.

Anecdotal evidence, yes. Did not claim otherwise.

[pdxindy]

I miss the groove tools, clip legato mode, and time signature automation.

All things considered, I much prefer Bitwig. It had something of a rocky start, but Bitwig is rounding into shape nicely. I had been planning to upgrade to Live 10 whenever it came out, but I no longer feel that way.