Ableton LIVE 10 ... Officially Announced. (plus: Buy LIVE 9 now with 20% discount, get LIVE 10 free)

[melomood]

I might actually upgrade from version 8 for this one

Same. Although I'm really attached to 8 so it'll be a tough change..

Same

[zerocrossing]

Still no support for MPE or poly pressure. That's it then, for me. The more I dig into my Roli, the more I get frustrated with Live. Sorry Ableton. It's been a good run, but it's clear we've grown apart. It's not you, it's me.

Just thinking the same.
I’ve used Live since it’s first iteration and do love it, mostly...
The lack of comping frustrates me and them ignoring the chance to catch up with the other DAW’s MPE integration is lazy.

The question for me now is, Logic or Bitwig?

As a Rise owner, I’ve got a free Bitwig Studio 8 Track license, so I’m going to dig into that and see if it suits me before I ditch Live. I’d go Logic, but I’m still on a PC for music.

[david.beholder]

I use the shortcut trick, too, but it is still a mess.

Agree.
I moved from Reaper where everything is so settable up. It took some time to get used to Live chaos.

[fallacy]

I tried a quick search... I'm interested to know if the fonts are any more bearable than Live 9 on a non-retina display?

[Protocol_b]

Apologies if this is not strictly on-subject (but it is for me!) - I want to move to LIVE from Logic. I want to get this upgrade path that is currently on sale. But I have a deal-breaker/maker issue, that seems oddly arcane because I can't search up any current (ie. post-2012) pertinent info on the web, although my question should be quite obvious and simple to any veteran LIVE user, so hopefully somebody can throw me a bone?

I am always transmitting at least 6 channels in via midi guiter. LIVE boasts of their midi routing capabilities, but so far I have found no way to avoid having those channels forced down into a single channel. Can I not use a multi timbral VSTi in the way it was intended? Can I not decide to receive eg. channels 1 - 4 on a given track, and have my multi timbral VSTi respond to these as separate channels instead of a merged single channel? (I have many scenarios of channel management in various forms, but this one is representative.)

If I can't, this would be a no-deal. Also I would be eternally confused as to why the premiere live performance software would send me back to kindergarten. I'm not un-edumacated, but I've spent the last 15 years with the AU routing misery of Logic Pro, may it burn in hell.

Spare me one minute of your time, I would be way grateful - thanks!

[rod_zero]

One way to do it is to use external instrument to send MIDI to a multitimbral plug-in.

[Protocol_b]

Thanks rod_zero! - would that have to exit LIVE via the IAC buss, and then be brought back in in a kludgy manner? Or can it be done neatly within the native environment?

[rod_zero]

Thanks rod_zero! - would that have to exit LIVE via the IAC buss, and then be brought back in in a kludgy manner? Or can it be done neatly within the native environment?

I refer to the External Instrument Device included in Live

https://www.ableton.com/en/manual/live- ... instrument

The External Instrument device is not an instrument itself, but rather a routing utility that allows you to easily integrate external (hardware) synthesizers, ReWire devices and multitimbral plug-ins into your projects. It sends MIDI out and returns audio.

You make a track and drop the external instrument there, and select where you wanna send the MIDI to, which includes other Live tracks.

Now I see your issue is more complex because you are playing a midi guitar which sends various channels, I think you may need to configure tracks MIDI I/O (select source and channel) and then send it to a Multitimbral plugins with the External instrument device.

I will try it later at home, and if you want me to explain it in more detail you can send me a PM.

[Protocol_b]

A millions thanks! I think I can take it from here, I'm pretty good with DAW 'wiring', I just needed assurance that it can indeed be done before I pull the trigger on a large purchase. I did have 30 days of demo but I pissed most of it away playing with the MUX vst. Thank you again!

[twisted-space]

You'll still be able to use it after the 30 days run out, you just won't be able to save anything.
Also, if you have a second email address, you can have another 30 days demo.

Edit: forgot to say...
Look into external instrument plugin, racks and chain selectors.

Also, in Live 10, max4live will get full access to hardware midi ports and you can probably do anything you want with midi once it's piped into max.

[zerocrossing]

Still no support for MPE or poly pressure. That's it then, for me. The more I dig into my Roli, the more I get frustrated with Live. Sorry Ableton. It's been a good run, but it's clear we've grown apart. It's not you, it's me.

I suspect (see: hope) they're holding this back for a 10.* update to coincide with a PUSH 3 hardware update (if not a new hardware product entirely). If they're developing a PUSH 3 hardware update with full MPE in mind, or another hardware product that is using full MPE, maybe it makes sense to hold back full MPE support in the software until the hardware is ready .... otherwise they're just helping create a larger market for their hardware competitors, giving the competitors a chance to strengthen their foothold and increase their numbers before Ableton has a chance to present their own fully MPE capable controller - and that would be a bit of an own goal, no ?

I'm disappointed LIVE 10 will seemingly not be coming out of the gate with full MPE support, but in trying to make sense of it, this is the (hopeful) conclusion I have come to. they sell hardware controllers now - so they're going to prioritise their own success in a nascent market (full MPE), and holding back full MPE support in their own software until their own (full MPE) hardware is ready seems like a prudent course of action.

not trying to be an apologist, and also aware that existing PUSH controllers have poly-aftertouch. also not an expert on full MPE controllers, so set your flamethrowers to a low sizzle, thx.

Well, hope away, but I'm done. Regardless of what their Push 3 is like, I don't think there's a hell of a lot of overlap between people who are thinking, "Should I get a Push 3 or Rise/Grand/Linnstrument?"

Believe me. I like Live. I really do. I'm always quick to recommend it when the person's needs seem to match up with its capabilities. I've just come to a point where it no longer matches up with my needs. I loaded up Bitwig 8 Track (free with Rise) and loaded up Equator and... it just worked. Have you jumped though the hoops you need to jump though to get it working correctly in Live? It's a joke. So... I guess it's time to move on. It just feels stupid for me to sit and wait for a feature that they clearly have little interest in supporting. I already found Bitwig oddly clumsy (did I really have to manually create my MIDI interfaces?) and the UI seems less clearly laid out than Live, but once I have it set up, I suspect I won't have to deal with that much, and the workflow will eventually become second nature to me, as it is in Live now. I guess it's just a matter of seeing how much I can get for my Live 9 license and if I can afford to upgrade Bitwig 8 Track.

[Daags]

Regardless of what their Push 3 is like, I don't think there's a hell of a lot of overlap between people who are thinking, "Should I get a Push 3 or Rise/Grand/Linnstrument?"

sure. I don't think that either, I suggested in the post you're quoting that they'd develop an entirely new piece of hardware to better market/take advantage of full MPE, and I explicitly stated that in subsequent posts. Nevertheless, I see enough PUSH people on various social media platforms imagining a PUSH 3 with full mpe functionality that I would consider it a possibility, for the sake of argument if nothing else.

the point is simple: if they're developing their own full MPE hardware, be it PUSH 3 or something entirely new in design, it is the 'smart move' to withold full, native MPE support in their software until they ship their own full MPE hardware. To do otherwise, as a major DAW developer with a commanding chunk of that market, they would be vastly increasing the demand for full MPE controllers while having no supply of their own and allowing their competitors in this otherwise nascent market to reap the benefits, take a foothold and enlarge their userbase ... leaving Ableton to play catch up further down the line and try to convince people who already own a $1,000+ MPE controller to drop another $1,000+ on theirs.

if they're developing a full MPE controller, this is the smart play. I'm pretty confident that when we see LIVE natively support full MPE, it will coincide with some hardware of theirs launching.

In the mean-time, this might be worth looking in to:

Also, in Live 10, max4live will get full access to hardware midi ports and you can probably do anything you want with midi once it's piped into max.

[pdxindy]

Nevertheless, I see enough PUSH people on various social media platforms imagining a PUSH 3 with full mpe functionality that I would consider it a possibility, for the sake of argument if nothing else.

My guess is that most of those people are imagining an MPE Push 3 at the Push 2 price... I doubt many of them are going to buy one at $1400

[pdxindy]

if they're developing their own full MPE hardware, be it PUSH 3 or something entirely new in design, it is the 'smart move' to withold full, native MPE support in their software until they ship their own full MPE hardware. To do otherwise, as a major DAW developer with a commanding chunk of that market, they would be vastly increasing the demand for full MPE controllers while having no supply of their own and allowing their competitors in this otherwise nascent market to reap the benefits, take a foothold and enlarge their userbase

So instead they do not support MPE and people like me who have no interest to wait for the mere possibility of it in the future go out and buy a Rise or Linnstrument now, then switch DAW's to be able to use it.

At this point, now that I know Live 10 does not have MPE support which makes it unlikely to do so in the next 1-2 years, it becomes less likely I would ever switch back. I waited long enough to see if MPE would come to Live 10. It is more likely that I will just sell my Live 9 Studio license and not look back.

[Daags]

if they're developing their own full MPE hardware, be it PUSH 3 or something entirely new in design, it is the 'smart move' to withold full, native MPE support in their software until they ship their own full MPE hardware. To do otherwise, as a major DAW developer with a commanding chunk of that market, they would be vastly increasing the demand for full MPE controllers while having no supply of their own and allowing their competitors in this otherwise nascent market to reap the benefits, take a foothold and enlarge their userbase

So instead they do not support MPE and people like me who have no interest to wait for the mere possibility of it in the future go out and buy a Rise or Linnstrument now, then switch DAW's to be able to use it.

And I'm sure Gerhard Behles sheds a solitary tear for each and everyone one of the individuals that are like you.
Meanwhile, the bigger picture: Ableton is a behemoth in the DAW marketplace, and there's a significant LIVE-specific controller market that Ableton keeps afloat. In the Amazon 'Best Sellers' rankings for daw controllers, there are two LIVE-specific controllers (Push 2 & APC) in the top 10, there are two more LIVE-'inspired' controllers. The rest of the top ten are generic. In the 'most wished for daw controller' section, the top 2 controllers are LIVE-specific (Push 2 & APC). So losing a few die-hard MPE enthusiasts on the short term is a small price to pay for the long term gain in making sure their strategy in rolling out full native MPE support in their software benefits their hardware above all others.

if we see a LIVE update that brings full native MPE support, I'm wagering it coincides with a full MPE compatible hardware launch of their own. Mickey mouse short term losses by not supporting it before hand aren't going to make anyone in the boardroom sweat.