Perhaps I am using it the wrong way, but if I solo a track, which is grouped into a submix, the submix track is muted as well so I hear nothing... if I solo the submix track too, all instruments in the submix are soloed and need to be muted manually...
It´s a bit annoying to work with...
Problem with Submix...
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 5070 posts since 27 Jul, 2004
What I found so far:
as long as you only got a volume/pan plugin on the submix (like the folder have) it´s passing through the audio, when a contained track is soloed...
as soon as you insert a second plugin (level meter, vst...) it´s muting...
as long as you only got a volume/pan plugin on the submix (like the folder have) it´s passing through the audio, when a contained track is soloed...
as soon as you insert a second plugin (level meter, vst...) it´s muting...
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- KVRist
- 228 posts since 2 Feb, 2015
The best work around for this is to first create a new empty track and feed the tracks you want in a folder in to this track. Then put them all in a folder including the empty track. Don't use a submix bus as they have problems not just with soloing but with freezing as well. Put any effect you would have put on the submix bus on the empty track instead not on the folder track as that will convert the folder track to a submix bus. The soloing will work as expected and you will also be able to freeze all tracks in the folder track by freezing the folder with an freeze point plugin.
Personally I prefer to create my own submix busses by feeding tracks in to another track and then I use tags for project organisation. I find it quicker to navigate using tags as it gets irritating constantly opening and closing folders. If you use tags you can navigate large projects very quickly. You also won't have problems with soloing and freezing.
Personally I prefer to create my own submix busses by feeding tracks in to another track and then I use tags for project organisation. I find it quicker to navigate using tags as it gets irritating constantly opening and closing folders. If you use tags you can navigate large projects very quickly. You also won't have problems with soloing and freezing.
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Robert Randolph Robert Randolph https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=7328 - KVRAF
- 2226 posts since 25 May, 2003 from Saint Petersburg, Florida
Bumping this because this is frustrating behaviour.
I've been using the workaround, but that makes it slightly unintuitive to browse a project that's already sorted by folders/submixes.
Currently there's no native way in Waveform to solo a track in a submix that I can see.
I've been using the workaround, but that makes it slightly unintuitive to browse a project that's already sorted by folders/submixes.
Currently there's no native way in Waveform to solo a track in a submix that I can see.
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- KVRian
- 755 posts since 4 Jun, 2004
Agreed, quite unusable. Several people have at different times tried to explain this to Dave but it appears he simply doesn’t understand.Robert Randolph wrote:this is frustrating behaviour.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 5070 posts since 27 Jul, 2004
What´s not understandable???frankvg wrote:Agreed, quite unusable. Several people have at different times tried to explain this to Dave but it appears he simply doesn’t understand.Robert Randolph wrote:this is frustrating behaviour.
If a track is inside a submix and you solo the track, the submix has to set to solo as well... otherwise the solo is useless...
It´s already working with folder tracks and if you bus a track to another track... why should a submix work different? ... Imho it´s simply a bug...
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- KVRAF
- 1790 posts since 30 Dec, 2012
I think what everyone seems to be forgetting here is that Folder and Submix tracks are two different things, implemented differently.
Folder tracks are essentially UI only objects and don't participate in the audio graph, submix tracks most definitely do as they are responsible for processing their sub-tracks and passing the audio on to their mix-bus.
Due to the difference in signal flow, solo and mute are handled differently between the two.
I understand and agree that there is a slight difference in behaviour and that the solo behaviour isn't ideal, but the problem is that it will take time and careful testing to improve it.
I have to weigh this up against the other ~350 items on the to-do list and decide how important is it seeing as you can actually get the correct audible effect at the moment, you just have to use the track mutes.
Do I spend a day on this, adding Javascript actions, improving the Javascript editor, fixing crashes, plugin compatibility (including Waves), Hi-DPI support on Windows, modifier assign control skewing, fuzzy search, plugin aliases, Rack modifiers, small UI oddities etc. etc. etc.
Folder tracks are essentially UI only objects and don't participate in the audio graph, submix tracks most definitely do as they are responsible for processing their sub-tracks and passing the audio on to their mix-bus.
Due to the difference in signal flow, solo and mute are handled differently between the two.
I understand and agree that there is a slight difference in behaviour and that the solo behaviour isn't ideal, but the problem is that it will take time and careful testing to improve it.
I have to weigh this up against the other ~350 items on the to-do list and decide how important is it seeing as you can actually get the correct audible effect at the moment, you just have to use the track mutes.
Do I spend a day on this, adding Javascript actions, improving the Javascript editor, fixing crashes, plugin compatibility (including Waves), Hi-DPI support on Windows, modifier assign control skewing, fuzzy search, plugin aliases, Rack modifiers, small UI oddities etc. etc. etc.
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Robert Randolph Robert Randolph https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=7328
- KVRAF
- 2226 posts since 25 May, 2003 from Saint Petersburg, Florida
Having to mute 20+ tracks just to hear one track for a few seconds isn't an acceptable workaround.dRowAudio wrote:I think what everyone seems to be forgetting here is that Folder and Submix tracks are two different things, implemented differently.
Folder tracks are essentially UI only objects and don't participate in the audio graph, submix tracks most definitely do as they are responsible for processing their sub-tracks and passing the audio on to their mix-bus.
Due to the difference in signal flow, solo and mute are handled differently between the two.
I understand and agree that there is a slight difference in behaviour and that the solo behaviour isn't ideal, but the problem is that it will take time and careful testing to improve it.
I have to weigh this up against the other ~350 items on the to-do list and decide how important is it seeing as you can actually get the correct audible effect at the moment, you just have to use the track mutes.
Do I spend a day on this, adding Javascript actions, improving the Javascript editor, fixing crashes, plugin compatibility (including Waves), Hi-DPI support on Windows, modifier assign control skewing, fuzzy search, plugin aliases, Rack modifiers, small UI oddities etc. etc. etc.
I appreciate the amount of work that you're doing, and the number of things us users throw at you, but personally I feel like this is a high priority issue. At least of the things I've complained about or reported, I personally feel that this is the most annoying thing that I've encountered.
It makes submixes, a common and vital feature in some workflows, in Waveform a frustrating experience rather than a time-saver.
Of course I won't be upset if you decide that something else is more important. I know the life of a developer is difficult. All I can do is communicate how I feel about the topic, and maybe help you understand that many of us users have a lot more tracks than you perhaps realize.
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vitocorleone123 vitocorleone123 https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=333504
- KVRAF
- 2500 posts since 30 Jun, 2014 from Pacific NW
I'd vote to put it pretty high on the list below the crashing bugs. At least the investigation part to get a better estimate of the level of effort. It's so EASY to request things when you're only a user 
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- KVRist
- 320 posts since 9 Sep, 2017
From the basic philosophy, to me the submix paradigm has very very low priority. Same opinion here like AGreen.
Though I may have 80 tracks or something, I use a track as a bus of ten others, and this is my submix anyway, and I can group all of that into a folder. The bus may be inside or outside below, and I may have an empty 0dB dummy track for the folder.
I create a drum bus directly below my drum tracks, and assign the red color to all bus tracks of that kind. So far, easy to scroll.
The point might be, that macros and modifiers in the UI (parameter listings...) get organized in a way they reflect folder and nested bus structure.
It may be that quite a number of experienced and highly professional folks prefer to use a paradigm known from the more expensive DAWs.
Though I may have 80 tracks or something, I use a track as a bus of ten others, and this is my submix anyway, and I can group all of that into a folder. The bus may be inside or outside below, and I may have an empty 0dB dummy track for the folder.
I create a drum bus directly below my drum tracks, and assign the red color to all bus tracks of that kind. So far, easy to scroll.
The point might be, that macros and modifiers in the UI (parameter listings...) get organized in a way they reflect folder and nested bus structure.
It may be that quite a number of experienced and highly professional folks prefer to use a paradigm known from the more expensive DAWs.