Inconsistent MIDI command triggering in MDrummer Large

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Gamma-UT
KVRAF
4268 posts since 8 Jun, 2009 from UK

Post Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:04 am

I'm trying to work with the MIDI command mode in MDrummer but having some trouble with synchronising loop changes with MIDI note-on events. It feels as though there's a setting hidden somewhere that's throwing it off. The manual and video tutorials show MDrummer following rhythm changes from note events at the start of each bar - that is, they trigger immeidately.

On my system (OS X Sierra, Live or Logic, MDrummer v7) the drummer immediately triggers the right loop at the start of playback but as the song plays, any trigger elsewhere in the C-1 octave takes a full bar before MDrummer reacts. Breaks can be delayed but not always. Is this a problem with the setup I have or is the manual wrong? If the manual is wrong, how far in ahead of a change do the notes need to be set to get MDrummer to respond?

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MeldaProduction
KVRAF
10401 posts since 15 Mar, 2008 from Czech republic

Re: Inconsistent MIDI command triggering in MDrummer Large

Post Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:07 am

I think the entire "issue" here is that many breaks do NOT start immediately - similarly to real drummers, they can just play a few snare hits at the end of the bar, MDrummer does the same thing.

If the problem is that the break occurs in a different bar, check that the not is at the right place, ideally make it quantized to the beginning of a bar. If it won't help feel free to send me some small project, so I can check it out myself.
Vojtech - MeldaProduction
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Gamma-UT
KVRAF
4268 posts since 8 Jun, 2009 from UK

Re: Inconsistent MIDI command triggering in MDrummer Large

Post Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:09 am

I was testing it with some of the factory patterns - it did sound as though there was a pick up on one loop at least, which would make sense from what you’re describing.

I’ll have a check later. Thanks.

But in general, do loops and breaks always sync to a bar boundary - whether it’s the current or subsequent one? It felt as though some breaks align to a half bar, but they did look to have content for only the second half of a bar.

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MeldaProduction
KVRAF
10401 posts since 15 Mar, 2008 from Czech republic

Re: Inconsistent MIDI command triggering in MDrummer Large

Post Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:13 am

Only the beats always start on the first quarter. Intros almost always. The rest of the loop types are starting from beats, so there is no need from them to start on the first quarter and MDrummer switches to them when appropriate. Plus you can even send the command later and MDrummer switch when the command gets received.
Vojtech - MeldaProduction
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Gamma-UT
KVRAF
4268 posts since 8 Jun, 2009 from UK

Re: Inconsistent MIDI command triggering in MDrummer Large

Post Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:31 am

I can't find a loop that does trigger at the start of a bar. I took shuffle right down on one or two to see if that was upsetting it but the ones I've been looking seem to have been quantised. However, slipping a C-1 octave into the previous bar does do what's expected, so it's not a disaster and far from unusual in drum plugins.

I think it would be worth updating the help/manual to say something like "In some cases, to ensure the beat starts at the beginning of the desired bar, the trigger for a loop/beat will need to be in the previous bar." And add in the bit about breaks beginning within a bar - the distinction isn't clear in the documentation.

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MeldaProduction
KVRAF
10401 posts since 15 Mar, 2008 from Czech republic

Re: Inconsistent MIDI command triggering in MDrummer Large

Post Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:56 am

I must say I'm quite confused from what you are saying. Could you create a tiny project with just the MDrummer, so I can check what is happening and if it is correct or not? (I feel like you may be expecting something, well, something :) )
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Gamma-UT
KVRAF
4268 posts since 8 Jun, 2009 from UK

Re: Inconsistent MIDI command triggering in MDrummer Large

Post Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:33 am

Here's a small Live 10 project done as a test. In the Arrangement view, the first clip's playthrough is 'wrong' - the G-1 loop starts a bar late. For the second clip, I've moved the G-1 note ahead into the previous bar and it starts when I want it to - the second bar in the phrase.
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goldglob
KVRian
526 posts since 10 Jan, 2007 from London

Re: Inconsistent MIDI command triggering in MDrummer Large

Post Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:09 am

Gamma-UT,
I've had similar problems in the past...can't remember exact details or what I did but try these things:
RHYTHM EDITOR> ADDITIONAL> Turn off sequencer mode and experiment with perfect sync setting.

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Gamma-UT
KVRAF
4268 posts since 8 Jun, 2009 from UK

Re: Inconsistent MIDI command triggering in MDrummer Large

Post Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:34 am

goldglob wrote:Gamma-UT,
I've had similar problems in the past...can't remember exact details or what I did but try these things:
RHYTHM EDITOR> ADDITIONAL> Turn off sequencer mode and experiment with perfect sync setting.
Thanks. I had a go with those yesterday. On the hunch there might be an immediate/next bar switch I went hunting for sync settings and played around with those - but I'm not sure I tried every combination. At the time, they didn't seem to make a big difference to timing behaviour but I might have missed the magic combo.

goldglob
KVRian
526 posts since 10 Jan, 2007 from London

Re: Inconsistent MIDI command triggering in MDrummer Large

Post Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:13 am

Whoa, just tested, getting loop starting a bar late as Gamma describes...only way to get them triggering properly seems to be having the MIDI note start a fraction early (before the grid line)....didn't used to be like this...something went wrong in a recent version??

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MeldaProduction
KVRAF
10401 posts since 15 Mar, 2008 from Czech republic

Re: Inconsistent MIDI command triggering in MDrummer Large

Post Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:16 am

Ok, so I checked the project and it indeed does that. Then I tried in Reaper and there it works fine, so my guess is that Live... as usual... It won't make it to the beta being released, but I'll check then. Btw. breaks are being triggered correctly, right? It's just the beats. There it needs the commands to arrive early enough, even one sample after the start of the bar and it's bad, like real drummer it switches in the beginning of the bar, not a single nanosecond later, or it would sound like a mistake :). So my guess is that Live sends incorrect timing.
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goldglob
KVRian
526 posts since 10 Jan, 2007 from London

Re: Inconsistent MIDI command triggering in MDrummer Large

Post Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:21 am

Vojtech, it's happening here in Reaper (v5.78 64 bit).

goldglob
KVRian
526 posts since 10 Jan, 2007 from London

Re: Inconsistent MIDI command triggering in MDrummer Large

Post Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:27 am

.....and yes, just for beats, breaks are triggering correctly.

goldglob
KVRian
526 posts since 10 Jan, 2007 from London

Re: Inconsistent MIDI command triggering in MDrummer Large

Post Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:35 am

....and now 10 mins later beats are working!!??

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Gamma-UT
KVRAF
4268 posts since 8 Jun, 2009 from UK

Re: Inconsistent MIDI command triggering in MDrummer Large

Post Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:47 am

That's interesting. I was getting the same behaviour in Logic X 10.4 - I imported the same loops. MDrummer crashed because of some edits I made to the drumsynth (turning on the second oscillator in the 4NN drumsynth seems to give it a headache). After reloading, the sync seemed to work as expected.

After quitting and starting again, the sync problem resurfaced in Logic - I haven't managed to recreate the situation that made it work. In Live, the wrong behaviour has been consistent.

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