KVR Audio

winkie00 · Post by **winkie00** » Thu May 31, 2018 4:36 pm

https://soundcloud.com/winkie00/cheetah

: ))

wagtunes · Post by **wagtunes** » Thu May 31, 2018 6:45 pm

Very unusual track. Kept my interest. Well done.

What synths used? Did you use Thor?

thecontrolcentre · Post by **thecontrolcentre** » Thu May 31, 2018 7:26 pm

Nice track. Dark, sci-fi feel to it. The beats are spacious and dubby. Most enjoyable.

winkie00 · Post by **winkie00** » Thu May 31, 2018 8:33 pm

Thanks. Some Rex for chopped up beats, subtractor bass at start, Europa for a neuro sounding bass and kong and redrum for main beats. And maelstrom for the noisy type bass.

: )) I have just started putting them out in a day as I was going through a period of just doing bits and not finishing a track. Better rough and ready than nothing eh.

ChamMusic · Post by **ChamMusic** » Thu May 31, 2018 8:33 pm

I enjoyed the track - some interesting ideas in there.

Confused as to why you've labelled it as Neuro style D n B.?

I assume you're referring to the Neurofunk sub-genre of D&B? ( I was there writing D&B in the late 90s in the UK when it first evolved)! :0)

For this genre, (not that I personally care about such things) it needs to maybe be:

More uptempo!!! More driving energy?

Include some more elements of heavy duty 'Funk'. Also - some well - developed 'Funk' harmonies?

Throw in some edges of old techstep + sprinklings of House, techno and Jazz?

winkie00 · Post by **winkie00** » Thu May 31, 2018 8:52 pm

Yeah not D n B tempo but all the stuff I have been watching on making this stuff have recommended about 95 bpm. Mine is 110 as I felt 95 was too slow. Only been at this for about a year proper now so I’m looking into tempo changes after the break. Going for a noisia type style with it but not quite getting there.

ChamMusic · Post by **ChamMusic** » Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:03 am

winkie00 wrote:Yeah not D n B tempo but all the stuff I have been watching on making this stuff have recommended about 95 bpm. Mine is 110 as I felt 95 was too slow. Only been at this for about a year proper now so I’m looking into tempo changes after the break. Going for a noisia type style with it but not quite getting there.

All D&B styles / sub-genres (including Neuro) have tempos between 160 - 180bpm...if anything it all gets faster as it continues to develop over the years!

Neuro is still fast, but (more than anything else) incorporates more elements from jazz and funk - jazzy / bluesy melodies and harmonies + use of instruments from those styles + fewer drops.

I like your track, but for me it simply isn't D&B.

I don't know who suggested 95bpm to you, but for me, they are simply wrong!

Neuro D&B artists / classic tracks - check out some of these and you'll hear what I mean:

Ed Rush, Bad Company UK, State Of Mind, Future Prophecies, Gridlok, Black Sun Empire, Calyx, Matrix...

winkie00 · Post by **winkie00** » Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:27 am

Anyway going for that new noisia 86 bpm : ) Less arguing and more music bud.

https://youtu.be/D4W1W7Ku15M

One of the videos I have watched were they are around 85 bpm and using drum and bass beats.

ChamMusic · Post by **ChamMusic** » Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:51 pm

winkie00 wrote:Less arguing and more music bud

Fair enough, but a few things are mixed up here...

That video tutorial you linked to:

YES..the bpm is 85, but what he doesn't explain is that he has all those beats double-timed...the drums are at 170bpm!

You mentioned Noisia - again, they often have the bpm down low, but when the D&B sections kick in, the actual drums are double-timed against the bpm...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50oHjGnnS_0

Listen from around 2 mins 30 secs and you'll hear what I mean!

Same with bands such as Black Sun Empire, Bless, State Of Mind, Rido, N-Phect and Prolix etc.

Not 'having a go' at you at all; just trying to explain that D&B needs those high tempo / high energy drum beats...whatever the underlying BPM is set at in the DAW.

I did enjoy your track, but when the beats kicked in, they were at the same low bpm as the DAW and didn't create a D&B vibe at all...although it was very effective.

winkie00 · Post by **winkie00** » Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:24 pm

Thanks bud, explained it well : )) I will try another version with quicker beats.

thecontrolcentre · Post by **thecontrolcentre** » Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:34 pm

Its not so much "quicker beats" as realizing that 80bpm and 160bpm are compatible tempos (so to speak). When I was doing DnB back in the 90s we played live at 160-180 bpm, but would drop into half-time to get that dubby feel for drops, etc ...

I used to sample breaks at 100 - 120 bpm then pitch them up to get that driving DnB thing going.

ChamMusic · Post by **ChamMusic** » Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:24 pm

thecontrolcentre wrote:When I was doing DnB back in the 90s we played live at 160-180 bpm, but would drop into half-time to get that dubby feel for drops, etc ...

Exactly! :0)

Takes me back to late 80s / early 90s and those fluid Ragga Jungle beats combined with Reggae bass lines...all broken up by delay-drenched 'Dub' drop sections...

Still prefer the more 'Jungle-style' beats in general...more flowing, driving yet with an edge of subtlety that some D&B rhythms lack.

ChamMusic · Post by **ChamMusic** » Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:27 pm

thecontrolcentre wrote:we played live at 160-180 bpm

Only ever tried this a couple of times...nearly killed the drummer we brought in! :0)

thecontrolcentre · Post by **thecontrolcentre** » Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:33 pm

ChamMusic wrote:
thecontrolcentre wrote:we played live at 160-180 bpm
Only ever tried this a couple of times...nearly killed the drummer we brought in! :0)

No live drummer ... Atari STe, Pro-24 and Cheetah samplers doing the beats, with a few analog synths for everything else.

ChamMusic · Post by **ChamMusic** » Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:54 pm

thecontrolcentre wrote:
ChamMusic wrote:
thecontrolcentre wrote:we played live at 160-180 bpm
Only ever tried this a couple of times...nearly killed the drummer we brought in! :0)
No live drummer ... Atari STe, Pro-24 and Cheetah samplers doing the beats, with a few analog synths for everything else.

Far more sensible...

Usual electronics + Live drummer + bass player + Sax + me on trumpet or Rhodes...full of massive energy but on the very edge of chaos throughout! :0)

We were doing smooth jazz influenced, LTJ Bukem, Good Looking Records stuff...basically a jazz combo with D&B backing...we had a blast, but we sucked...never had time to rehearse it all properly!

Made this today in Reason. Neuro style D n B.